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Glasgow Rangers
- Thread starter EJG
- Start date
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
'HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) is set to ask the Court of Session to put Rangers Football Club into administration.
The legal move counters the club's bid on Monday to file for protection against its creditors.'
I don't get it... The HMRC legal move is countering their attempts to enter administration by........ asking the courts to put them into administration?
Any knowledgable lawyer type people around?
The legal move counters the club's bid on Monday to file for protection against its creditors.'
I don't get it... The HMRC legal move is countering their attempts to enter administration by........ asking the courts to put them into administration?
Any knowledgable lawyer type people around?
marcospur2
Ronnie Rosenthal
It is definitely weird. This is about HMRC trying to assert some control, because they know full well that the Rangers chairman could end up with the club under a newly formed company, with debts such as those historically owed to HMRC wiped out/significantly reduced. My guess is this is a first step in a forthcoming legal battle where HMRC attempts to prevent him from getting what he wants without ever repaying long-standing debts. Would be a disgrace if Rangers FC was unable to pay of its tax liabilities and yet continued under a new company in the same league with just a ten point deduction. Hence forthcoming legal action...
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Phil Horatio
Gilberto
Yes, as I had alluded to earlier, whichever taskforce HMRC have working on these (and future) cases are patently NOT effing around anymore.
Edit: as of 14:50, Rangers officially go into administration, appointing Duff and Phelps as their choice. HMRC surprised many by the forcing of their hand and strong line they are taking, including the move today to have HMRC administrators put in place by days end, rather than Rangers choice.
Whilst some might think this represents a kind of victory for Rangers, it is now absolutely clear (if it wasn't before) HMRC are going to town on Rangers, and down the line, charlatan clubs in England will feel the heat.
Bring the rain....
Edit: as of 14:50, Rangers officially go into administration, appointing Duff and Phelps as their choice. HMRC surprised many by the forcing of their hand and strong line they are taking, including the move today to have HMRC administrators put in place by days end, rather than Rangers choice.
Whilst some might think this represents a kind of victory for Rangers, it is now absolutely clear (if it wasn't before) HMRC are going to town on Rangers, and down the line, charlatan clubs in England will feel the heat.
Bring the rain....
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Phil Horatio
Gilberto
On the other hand, look at it this way.
All this is traced back 20 odd years to the advent of an axis of footballing, financial and political evil which sought to buy domestic dominance and equal Celtics European cup and title haul. They openly admitted they wanted to spend Celtic into oblivion, motivated in no small part by naked sectarian hatred. They would have been better served emulating in other ways Celtics Lisbon Lions European champions and 9 in a row team, who were all born within 30 miles of Celtic Park and who were almost 50/50 religious makeup, whilst Rangers' banned Catholics and immigrants for over 100 years until quite recently.
Prior to this program, financed as we now know by illegality and fraud, Aberdeen, Dundee United etc as well as Celtic and Rangers competed and won European trophies alongside the elite.
It won't happen, because the Rangers hierarchy and most of right wing Scottish media are intertwined, but the link has to be made between what Rangers have done over these last years, the unwholesome motivations for this, and the clear correlation with the subsequent negative effects on Scottish Football. What happened since the 1990s surely cant be a huge coincidence, rather a Rangers cannibalisation of the Scottish game.
It is entirely possible that if this cancer is finally tackled, Scottish football can begin to work it's way back to a more natural equilibrium and, with FFP imminent also, this could and should be seen as a window of opportunity to reclaim some of its previous strength.
the genre spanner
Calum Davenport
So the disputed HMRC tax bill comes from them allegedly avoiding paying taxes by paying "employee benefit trusts"; I remember someone in the HR tax trial thread linking to a similar story about Arsenal in the past, does anyone understand tax etc enough to understand if/how this is different?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1467295/Parlour-divorce-exposes-Arsenal-offshore-tax-dodge.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1467295/Parlour-divorce-exposes-Arsenal-offshore-tax-dodge.html
Naughton16
Clive Wilson
They are responsible for ruining Scottish football.
Don't forget Aberdeen who would have been the dominant team in the 90's if it hadn't been for Rangers spending well beyond their means.
Don't forget Aberdeen who would have been the dominant team in the 90's if it hadn't been for Rangers spending well beyond their means.
Phil Horatio
Gilberto
You are right, and I have alluded to this also in a previous post. There is a brick storm coming in the next few years after this big fish is fried and I hope there is copious amounts of comeuppance. Between this HMRC taskforce and the hope of FFP rules working, it could be the saviour of real football.
Bullet
Luka Modric
Like when Ken Bates changed Chelsea Football Club to Chelsea Football and Athletic Club or somesuch flimflam and escaped a massive bill... and still managed to rack up ?ú80m of debt he couldn't pay
W@nkers
Park Lane James
Andy Sinton
Always thought that big clubs going under is not a bad thing for the game but a good thing - as it allows the powers that be to make reforms and stop clubs spending beyond their means. Liverpool was close to going into administration not long ago, until they were bought out again. That would have been a massive scalp for those that want financial reform in British football.
marcospur2
Ronnie Rosenthal
Indeed. Though in this case I would think HMRC will seek to test this in the courts because it is, and would be, utterly obscene. They have been getting more aggressive and willing to push previously untested areas of the law and considering the amounts involved they surely will here. The real story will also be in determining what money has come in, and gone out of the club since the current Chairman took over. Rangers have not published accounts, and seem to be in very murky waters. Apparently the current issue for the club is a ?ú9m unpaid tax bill since May 2011 which has compunded an unsustainable funding model. In other words additional to any potential longer-term debts the club may face (i.e. the possible ?ú50m+ for the benefit trusts).
In my opinon there is no way they/he should be able to establish a new company in the way I previously mentioned. If that does happen they should be treated as a new club, and thus forced out of the top division. Would be morally wrong that they could continue that way, with the same name, stadium and many of the same players on the back of taxpayer losses and such poor management.
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When Fiorentina went out of business in 2002, with debts of around $50 million, some business man started a new club named Associazione Calcio Fiorentina e Florentia Viola in Serie C2. They won this league and due to some extraordinary events caused by other clubs got promoted straight to Serie B as part of an expansion. In 2003 they bought back the rights to the name Fiorentina and the old shirt design and were now called ACF Fiorentina. After finishing 6th they won a two legged playoff against the 15th placed team in Serie A, thanks to Serie A being expanded from 18 to 20 teams, and won their second promotion.
In short: Fiorentina went bankrupt and were back in the top flight after just 2 years.
In Spain the current Malaga team used to be the reserves for the former Malaga team. At some point they ended up in the same division (this whole B team malarchy), so they set up the reserves as a separate club with a new name to avoid them being moved down a division. When the original Malaga went bankrupt all the fans just moved to the new one, which changed their name again.
Getafe is also a replacement for the original Getafe that went bankrupt. The current one is a merger of two other clubs in the same area.
In short: Fiorentina went bankrupt and were back in the top flight after just 2 years.
In Spain the current Malaga team used to be the reserves for the former Malaga team. At some point they ended up in the same division (this whole B team malarchy), so they set up the reserves as a separate club with a new name to avoid them being moved down a division. When the original Malaga went bankrupt all the fans just moved to the new one, which changed their name again.
Getafe is also a replacement for the original Getafe that went bankrupt. The current one is a merger of two other clubs in the same area.
Rangers face 'pure carnage’ says Terry Butcher
Rangers are expected to be forced to cut staff and salaries after they entered administration and were deducted 10 points yesterday – a situation former captain Terry Butcher described as “pure carnage”. But the impact of the dramatic developments will also be felt by clubs at home and abroad.
Owner Craig Whyte placed the club into administration after Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs went to court in Edinburgh to force the move on its terms, which would have allowed the government to appoint the executives overseeing the bankruptcy.
Whyte had filed papers on Monday giving him 10 days to decide whether to put the club into administration over a claim by HMRC for as much as ?ú75 million, including penalties involving unpaid tax relating to the use of employee benefit trusts. Rangers yesterday appointed Duff & Phelps as administrators.
Rangers set up the trusts under the previous owner, Sir David Murray, who sold his 85 per cent stake in the club to Whyte in May for ?ú1 in return for Whyte repaying ?ú18 million of loans to Lloyds Banking Group Plc. However, it is the inability of Whyte to fund the club’s business on a weekly basis which has brought them to this stage.
“Today has come as a huge shock,” said Butcher, who played for the Ibrox side between 1986 and 1990. “I’ve been through this 10 years ago at Motherwell and it’s carnage at a football club, it really is carnage. Everybody will be fearful for their jobs and wondering if they are on the list because it’s the grim reaper time, because the administrator can get rid of whoever he wants.”
In a statement on Rangers’ official website, Whyte said: “Due to its cost structure, the club has been loss making for many months. This situation has resulted in increasing liabilities and the club has been in discussion with HMRC regarding these liabilities. These liabilities combined with the threat of the outcome of the first-tier tax tribunal left the club no option but to formally restructure its financial affairs.”
Whyte stressed the administrators would work in the club’s interests. He added: “It remains our firm belief that the club’s future can be secured and we hope this period of administration will be as short as possible.”
Yesterday’s developments promp-ted Murray to break his silence and he expressed “huge disappointment” over the decision. “The timing of the appointment of administrators is especially surprising given two facts. Firstly, there has been no decision, and there is no present indication as to the timing of a decision, from the first-tier tax tribunal concerning the potential claim from HMRC of ?ú36.5 million excluding interest and penalties. Secondly, legal opinion on the strength of the club’s case remains favourable.”
Murray also revealed he had sought clarification from Whyte that he had met his obligations, with limited success, and dismissed suggestions he had a legal mechanism to reassume control under the terms of the sale.
Motherwell-born Whyte, who had vowed to invest ?ú25 million in the playing squad over five years, had been under increasing pressure in recent months to clarify a number of financial issues. The club have still not published audited accounts due before the end of last year or held an AGM as required. That led to trading on their shares being suspended last month by the PLUS Stock Exchange, who are investigating Whyte’s admission that he had been disqualified as a director for seven years from 2000.
Whyte also admitted securing funds, believed to be about ?ú24 million, from loan company Ticketus in lieu of future season-ticket sales, but denied using the cash to fund his takeover. The points deduction means Rangers have all but lost the league title to Celtic, although they still sit nine points above third-placed Motherwell, but it is the long-term viability of the club which will most worry those connected with the club.
In England football debt takes priority over the taxman and other creditors but that situation does not apply north of the border, as clubs such as Dundee United and Dunfermline are discovering to their cost.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9083157/Rangers-face-pure-carnage-says-Terry-Butcher.html
Rangers are expected to be forced to cut staff and salaries after they entered administration and were deducted 10 points yesterday – a situation former captain Terry Butcher described as “pure carnage”. But the impact of the dramatic developments will also be felt by clubs at home and abroad.
Owner Craig Whyte placed the club into administration after Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs went to court in Edinburgh to force the move on its terms, which would have allowed the government to appoint the executives overseeing the bankruptcy.
Whyte had filed papers on Monday giving him 10 days to decide whether to put the club into administration over a claim by HMRC for as much as ?ú75 million, including penalties involving unpaid tax relating to the use of employee benefit trusts. Rangers yesterday appointed Duff & Phelps as administrators.
Rangers set up the trusts under the previous owner, Sir David Murray, who sold his 85 per cent stake in the club to Whyte in May for ?ú1 in return for Whyte repaying ?ú18 million of loans to Lloyds Banking Group Plc. However, it is the inability of Whyte to fund the club’s business on a weekly basis which has brought them to this stage.
“Today has come as a huge shock,” said Butcher, who played for the Ibrox side between 1986 and 1990. “I’ve been through this 10 years ago at Motherwell and it’s carnage at a football club, it really is carnage. Everybody will be fearful for their jobs and wondering if they are on the list because it’s the grim reaper time, because the administrator can get rid of whoever he wants.”
In a statement on Rangers’ official website, Whyte said: “Due to its cost structure, the club has been loss making for many months. This situation has resulted in increasing liabilities and the club has been in discussion with HMRC regarding these liabilities. These liabilities combined with the threat of the outcome of the first-tier tax tribunal left the club no option but to formally restructure its financial affairs.”
Whyte stressed the administrators would work in the club’s interests. He added: “It remains our firm belief that the club’s future can be secured and we hope this period of administration will be as short as possible.”
Yesterday’s developments promp-ted Murray to break his silence and he expressed “huge disappointment” over the decision. “The timing of the appointment of administrators is especially surprising given two facts. Firstly, there has been no decision, and there is no present indication as to the timing of a decision, from the first-tier tax tribunal concerning the potential claim from HMRC of ?ú36.5 million excluding interest and penalties. Secondly, legal opinion on the strength of the club’s case remains favourable.”
Murray also revealed he had sought clarification from Whyte that he had met his obligations, with limited success, and dismissed suggestions he had a legal mechanism to reassume control under the terms of the sale.
Motherwell-born Whyte, who had vowed to invest ?ú25 million in the playing squad over five years, had been under increasing pressure in recent months to clarify a number of financial issues. The club have still not published audited accounts due before the end of last year or held an AGM as required. That led to trading on their shares being suspended last month by the PLUS Stock Exchange, who are investigating Whyte’s admission that he had been disqualified as a director for seven years from 2000.
Whyte also admitted securing funds, believed to be about ?ú24 million, from loan company Ticketus in lieu of future season-ticket sales, but denied using the cash to fund his takeover. The points deduction means Rangers have all but lost the league title to Celtic, although they still sit nine points above third-placed Motherwell, but it is the long-term viability of the club which will most worry those connected with the club.
In England football debt takes priority over the taxman and other creditors but that situation does not apply north of the border, as clubs such as Dundee United and Dunfermline are discovering to their cost.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9083157/Rangers-face-pure-carnage-says-Terry-Butcher.html
Sorry, Phil Horatio, no matter that you're also a Spurs fan, I'm not going to swallow the Celtic propaganda book whole!
I find both clubs repellent. I feel for the rest of Scottish football but, so long as neither of them is ever allowed anywhere near competitive English football - other than for European games - it's no skin off my back, I suppose.
I find both clubs repellent. I feel for the rest of Scottish football but, so long as neither of them is ever allowed anywhere near competitive English football - other than for European games - it's no skin off my back, I suppose.
Any counter argumments to back your claim Celtic are just as bad? Or just a dislike of them?
vadimivich
Jonathan Blondel
Hell, just a few months ago they got hit with a fine from UEFA for singing pro-IRA songs in a Europa League match ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/14/celtic-uefa-illicit-chanting-europa-league ). You don't have to look hard to find the stench of sectarianism, bigotry, hatred or terrorism.
Both are just despicable clubs. Outside of some of the Balkans clubs (looking at you, Partizan Belgrade), they are two of the most vile in Europe. We'd be better off without either one of them, hopefully Celtic will go bankrupt next.
Im not talking about the sectarianism. That is obvious.
But Phil Horatio, in my view, has pointed out alot of institutional activity which goes way beyond fans singing songs. If the things he is saying are true, then I can see why Rangers deserve everything they get.
If, on the other hand, Celtic have run their club well, earned their glory, and only been guilty of being the other half of this political rivalry, then I dont see in any way how they can be "just as vile".
Note: I am asking for a counter argument to Phil Horatios claims, as I dont know alot about those clubs....not saying Celtic are angels, before the Pitchfork Massive come out full swing
But Phil Horatio, in my view, has pointed out alot of institutional activity which goes way beyond fans singing songs. If the things he is saying are true, then I can see why Rangers deserve everything they get.
If, on the other hand, Celtic have run their club well, earned their glory, and only been guilty of being the other half of this political rivalry, then I dont see in any way how they can be "just as vile".
Note: I am asking for a counter argument to Phil Horatios claims, as I dont know alot about those clubs....not saying Celtic are angels, before the Pitchfork Massive come out full swing