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Financial Fair Play

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

I play football on Sunday mornings. Indoor, given the wintery conditions at the moment, but you can't have everything. And the sportsmanship, good humour and better conversations are what keeps football alive for me.

By my own logic, football supporters are irrational, emotional and love their club to the extent of indulging gleefully in tribalism that would be unheard of outside that little bubble. And there is little that is rational in a nine-year old boy, I'm sure you'll agree. So when I say that I fell in love with Tottenham because it was the first football jersey I ever received, when I was nine years old, I am completely secure in my own reasoning. There was nothing rational or logical about choosing Spurs.

Once I became a Spurs fan, I couldn't break that bond, no matter how hard I tried. And believe me, I did try. When Campbell callously moved over the thin red line, I tried. When lasagna-gate rolled around, agonizing my adolescent heart, I tried. When Drogba scored that penalty last year....I came close. But I couldn't stay away forever, and I always came back for more. Be it agony, or glimpses of glory.

That bond is what a free market lacks. Brand loyalty is not going to make you keep buying the newest Apple computer, despite it breaking down on you several times. No one is that understanding, because in the free market, you give a company one chance, maybe two, before you move on to a competitor who can deliver what your current provider lacks. Ruthless competition drives the free market, drives capitalism. The bond a fan has with his football club, that bond survives all kinds of abuse, disappointment and failure. The bond a man or woman has with their computer does not last through those things.

36,000 do not show up at KPMG's offices to cheer on their accountants every week.

Now, I will ask you again; if you truly believe football is capitalistic, if you truly believe there is nothing special about football that necessitates providing an even footing to ALL clubs, not just the rich ones, and if you truly believe that City and Chelsea are right to do what they do because football is driven purely by logic, rationality and profit.....then why are you still here, and not on RedCafe? Or Hala Madrid, I don't judge between the two. But they're both infinitely more succesful and popular than we are, so why aren't you following them?

Before another snarky reply that bears little to no relevance to the question comes my way, I'll answer it for you. You're here because you have a connection with this club that outweighs considerations of success or failure. You're here because you care about this club. You're here despite being able to leave freely and go elsewhere.

You are here because you are a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Or Wrexham. Or Altrincham. Or Aberdeen. Or Falkirk. Or Bristol Rovers. The list goes on, populated by stoic, loyal people who travel miles, brave freezing winds and thundering rain, sweltering heat and icy cold, hostile atmospheres and eternal disappointment, who spend thousands of pounds yearly travelling around the isles supporting the club they love, shouting themselves hoarse for no other reason than to giddy the lads up and get the three points for a side they earnestly believe is 'theirs'.

And that is a bond true capitalism will never, ever have. And that, alone, is a reason to regulate this sport more than any free market economy.

A fantastic post. I am going to move to get this preserved/stickied. In a fudging nutshell...
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

I play football on Sunday mornings. Indoor, given the wintery conditions at the moment, but you can't have everything. And the sportsmanship, good humour and better conversations are what keeps football alive for me.

By my own logic, football supporters are irrational, emotional and love their club to the extent of indulging gleefully in tribalism that would be unheard of outside that little bubble. And there is little that is rational in a nine-year old boy, I'm sure you'll agree. So when I say that I fell in love with Tottenham because it was the first football jersey I ever received, when I was nine years old, I am completely secure in my own reasoning. There was nothing rational or logical about choosing Spurs.

Once I became a Spurs fan, I couldn't break that bond, no matter how hard I tried. And believe me, I did try. When Campbell callously moved over the thin red line, I tried. When lasagna-gate rolled around, agonizing my adolescent heart, I tried. When Drogba scored that penalty last year....I came close. But I couldn't stay away forever, and I always came back for more. Be it agony, or glimpses of glory.

That bond is what a free market lacks. Brand loyalty is not going to make you keep buying the newest Apple computer, despite it breaking down on you several times. No one is that understanding, because in the free market, you give a company one chance, maybe two, before you move on to a competitor who can deliver what your current provider lacks. Ruthless competition drives the free market, drives capitalism. The bond a fan has with his football club, that bond survives all kinds of abuse, disappointment and failure. The bond a man or woman has with their computer does not last through those things.

36,000 do not show up at KPMG's offices to cheer on their accountants every week.

Now, I will ask you again; if you truly believe football is capitalistic, if you truly believe there is nothing special about football that necessitates providing an even footing to ALL clubs, not just the rich ones, and if you truly believe that City and Chelsea are right to do what they do because football is driven purely by logic, rationality and profit.....then why are you still here, and not on RedCafe? Or Hala Madrid, I don't judge between the two. But they're both infinitely more succesful and popular than we are, so why aren't you following them?

Before another snarky reply that bears little to no relevance to the question comes my way, I'll answer it for you. You're here because you have a connection with this club that outweighs considerations of success or failure. You're here because you care about this club. You're here despite being able to leave freely and go elsewhere.

You are here because you are a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Or Wrexham. Or Altrincham. Or Aberdeen. Or Falkirk. Or Bristol Rovers. The list goes on, populated by stoic, loyal people who travel miles, brave freezing winds and thundering rain, sweltering heat and icy cold, hostile atmospheres and eternal disappointment, who spend thousands of pounds yearly travelling around the isles supporting the club they love, shouting themselves hoarse for no other reason than to giddy the lads up and get the three points for a side they earnestly believe is 'theirs'.

And that is a bond true capitalism will never, ever have. And that, alone, is a reason to regulate this sport more than any free market economy.

Great post.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

jong-tae-se-crying-2010-south-africa-world-cup-vs-brazil.jpg



Appreciated, fellas.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

.
Summary from SSN


The Premier League have voted in new financial regulations - we try and answer any questions.

Q: Will the Premier League now have a salary cap?

A: Not in the strict sense of the word. Clubs whose total wage bill is more than £52million will only be allowed to increase their wages by £4million per season for the next three years.

Q: So the likes of Manchester United are limited to a #4million a year total wage increase?

A: Not quite - the restriction only applies to the income from TV money. If clubs boost their income through extra sponsorship deals or matchday income, they can spend that on wages too.

Q: What do the new financial fair play (FFP) rules mean and which clubs will it effect?

A: These will put a ceiling on the amount of losses each club can make £105million over three years, but these have to guaranteed by owners.

Q: How does that compare to UEFA's FFP rules?

A: UEFA's are more stringent - losses over three years are limited to 45million euros (#39million).

Q: Which clubs fall foul of the #105million losses over three years figure?

A: On the most recent figures, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Liverpool and Aston Villa have all reported higher losses than #105million, but the trend is towards cutting losses and this will not apply until the three years before 2016.

Q: If a club's official annual figures show losses of #110million, will they automatically be in breach of the regulations?

A: Not necessarily - spending on academies, facilities and stadiums can be offset.

Q: What will happen if a club is found guilty of breaching the salary and spending regulations?

A: They are likely to have a points deduction.

Q: Has the final decision now been taken by the Premier League?

A: The principle of the regulations, and the figures involved, have been agreed. They do still need to be ratified at a meeting in April however.

Q: Is that just a rubber-stamping exercise?

A: It will probably go through - but the vote could not have been closer with only 13 of the 19 votes cast in favour, just scraping past the necessary two-thirds majority.

Q: Why did some clubs viewed as being well-run and not making losses vote against the regulations?

A: Some of them believe the Premier League should be a free market, are proud of the way they have run their clubs on a sustainable basis and resent being told what to do.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11662/8478435/New-rules-explained
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Wouldn't CL money be in addition to the PL money? We can do what we want with it.

Short-Term Cost Control Measure

Premier League clubs are restricted in terms the amount of increased PL Central Funds that can be used to increase current player wage costs to the tune of:

2013/14: £4m
2014/14: £8m
2015/16: £12m

The Short Term Cost Control measure applies only to clubs with a player wage bill in excess of £52m in 2013/14, £56m in 2014/15 and £60m in 2015/16.

So makes qualifying for the CL even more of an advantage. The increased PL TV money would have closed the gap between CL and non-CL clubs. But if the PL money can't be spent to increase wages except by a small amount (less as a percentage than the increased PL money), then the CL money which can be spent on wages becomes more important in attracting top players who require top wages.

It's funny ... well, not really ... that the one element of football club funding that is egalitarian is being restricted, thus allowing those in the CL, those with big stadia and those with rich owners to gain an advantage over the mid-table teams. However, from Spurs perspective, this increases the value of a new large stadium.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

£4m is £75k per week, so if we give a new deal to 5 of our players and increase their wages by £15kpw, that is that. Increase fully spent?

I'm confused, the 'increased PL Central Funds' money doesn't come to us with a radioactive marker attached, so they can't see where it is spent... so I guess they will just look at our accounts for this year and say "OK you spent £80m on wages" (or whatever) so we can now spend £84m on wages.

Unless we can show we've made more money from merchandising and ticket sales etc... so if we'd had a rubbish cup run the year before, but a good cup run that year... we can spend that money too?

But we won't know how good our cup run is until we've already spent the money on wages for that year?

I don't get it, just seems totally unpoliceable
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Bullet - have a look at the Q&A further up


Q: So the likes of Manchester United are limited to a #4million a year total wage increase?

A: Not quite - the restriction only applies to the income from TV money. If clubs boost their income through extra sponsorship deals or matchday income, they can spend that on wages too.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

I play football on Sunday mornings. Indoor, given the wintery conditions at the moment, but you can't have everything. And the sportsmanship, good humour and better conversations are what keeps football alive for me.

By my own logic, football supporters are irrational, emotional and love their club to the extent of indulging gleefully in tribalism that would be unheard of outside that little bubble. And there is little that is rational in a nine-year old boy, I'm sure you'll agree. So when I say that I fell in love with Tottenham because it was the first football jersey I ever received, when I was nine years old, I am completely secure in my own reasoning. There was nothing rational or logical about choosing Spurs.

Once I became a Spurs fan, I couldn't break that bond, no matter how hard I tried. And believe me, I did try. When Campbell callously moved over the thin red line, I tried. When lasagna-gate rolled around, agonizing my adolescent heart, I tried. When Drogba scored that penalty last year....I came close. But I couldn't stay away forever, and I always came back for more. Be it agony, or glimpses of glory.

That bond is what a free market lacks. Brand loyalty is not going to make you keep buying the newest Apple computer, despite it breaking down on you several times. No one is that understanding, because in the free market, you give a company one chance, maybe two, before you move on to a competitor who can deliver what your current provider lacks. Ruthless competition drives the free market, drives capitalism. The bond a fan has with his football club, that bond survives all kinds of abuse, disappointment and failure. The bond a man or woman has with their computer does not last through those things.

36,000 do not show up at KPMG's offices to cheer on their accountants every week.

Now, I will ask you again; if you truly believe football is capitalistic, if you truly believe there is nothing special about football that necessitates providing an even footing to ALL clubs, not just the rich ones, and if you truly believe that City and Chelsea are right to do what they do because football is driven purely by logic, rationality and profit.....then why are you still here, and not on RedCafe? Or Hala Madrid, I don't judge between the two. But they're both infinitely more succesful and popular than we are, so why aren't you following them?

Before another snarky reply that bears little to no relevance to the question comes my way, I'll answer it for you. You're here because you have a connection with this club that outweighs considerations of success or failure. You're here because you care about this club. You're here despite being able to leave freely and go elsewhere.

You are here because you are a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Or Wrexham. Or Altrincham. Or Aberdeen. Or Falkirk. Or Bristol Rovers. The list goes on, populated by stoic, loyal people who travel miles, brave freezing winds and thundering rain, sweltering heat and icy cold, hostile atmospheres and eternal disappointment, who spend thousands of pounds yearly travelling around the isles supporting the club they love, shouting themselves hoarse for no other reason than to giddy the lads up and get the three points for a side they earnestly believe is 'theirs'.

And that is a bond true capitalism will never, ever have. And that, alone, is a reason to regulate this sport more than any free market economy.

Brilliantly put. =D> =D> =D>
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

The more I read, the more I think the FPP is a paper tiger. Can't see it curtailing the current moneyed clubs at all.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Bullet - have a look at the Q&A further up


Q: So the likes of Manchester United are limited to a #4million a year total wage increase?

A: Not quite - the restriction only applies to the income from TV money. If clubs boost their income through extra sponsorship deals or matchday income, they can spend that on wages too.

Yes I know, but how can you spend the money on wages from increased cup runs... whilst you are on those cup runs?

If we sign someone and say we'll give them £5m for the year in wages... but we can only do that if we go on a huge cup run and make £5m from the cups that same year he is playing?

I don't get it
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

i expect you just have to turn your books in at the end of the season and it all has to match up
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Yes I know, but how can you spend the money on wages from increased cup runs... whilst you are on those cup runs?

If we sign someone and say we'll give them £5m for the year in wages... but we can only do that if we go on a huge cup run and make £5m from the cups that same year he is playing?

I don't get it

I presume they're referring to the following year?
 
Mancini's latest comments on this are embarrassing, cringeworthy and arrogant. Our continued spending was in no way sustainable, but he's acting like a spoiled brat. Not at all impressed.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play - Now Voted In By The Premier League

Mancini's latest comments on this are embarrassing, cringeworthy and arrogant. Our continued spending was in no way sustainable, but he's acting like a spoiled brat. Not at all impressed.


Link?
 
Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

From the Wall Street Journal. Have to say that I agree with it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...271428024.html

Football's Anticompetitive Streak

Some of Europe's biggest clubs are, unsurprisingly, supporting rules that entrench their dominance.

By JEAN-LOUIS DUPONT

Normally, if a trade association introduced rules that raised barriers to entry and entrenched dominant players, antitrust regulators would be up in arms. Yet UEFA—the Union of European Football Associations—seems to enjoy the support, even the encouragement, of the European Commission on new rules that will do just that.

The Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules, which come into force in the 2013-14 season, prevent football clubs from spending more than what they earn each year. Clubs that do not comply with this "break-even" principle will face sanctions, including a potential ban on participation in UEFA competitions.

The new rules, which were first proposed in 2009, are supposedly meant to stop clubs' ballooning financial losses, which according to UEFA have threatened both individual, highly popular clubs and the future of European football as a whole.

All of this sounds reasonable at first. But as an agreement whereby industry participants jointly decide to limit investments, FFP likely constitutes collusion and hence a violation of EU competition law. FFP may also infringe other EU freedoms such as the free movement of workers and services.

This isn't the view of the European Commission. In a letter dated March 12, 2012, competition chief Joaquin Almunia wrote to UEFA President Michel Platini to say that he welcomed the break-even rule, stating that "this principle is also consistent with the aims and objectives of EU policy in the field of State Aid."

But the European Court of Justice might see it differently. This wouldn't be the first case in which sporting rules are struck down by the EU's highest court. In the 1995 Bosman ruling, the ECJ ruled against restrictions that prevented football players from moving to new clubs after their contracts expired. The Luxembourg-based court also prohibited domestic football leagues and UEFA from placing quotas on the number of non-EU players allowed on teams.

In its Meca-Medina judgment of 2006, the ECJ set an even more important precedent: that sports do not constitute a special case before EU law. The court must apply the same tests to sports as it does to any area of economic activity. I was involved in both of these cases, and I would note that in each instance the governing bodies concerned had initially received the full support of the European Commission.

The relevant test for sporting rules, therefore, is that if they distort competition or other EU freedoms, they must do so no more than is necessary in pursuit of legitimate objectives. That FFP distorts competition and EU freedoms is plain: EU case law has held that football players are the raw materials for football clubs to produce their final product. FFP is a joint agreement between clubs to limit their freedom to hire players by restraining their ability to spend on wages and transfers. This restraint of free competition may at the same time constitute a violation of the free movement of workers.

The next question is whether the objectives of FFP are legitimate and necessary. UEFA has put forth several objectives for FFP, the first of which is preserving the long-term financial stability of European football. This is laudable but unlikely to be considered such a fundamental objective that it justifies restricting competition.

A second objective, to preserve the integrity of the game in UEFA competition, might be looked upon better. But in fact, FFP is more likely to hinder than help in this regard.

European club football is characterized by numerous competitive imbalances: between clubs competing in UEFA competitions, between the domestic leagues of different countries, and between individual clubs in those leagues. Often the key determinant of a club's financial strength is the size of its domestic market and the commercial realities that apply within it—competing in the English Premier League will always be more lucrative than in its Scottish counterpart. As a result, the leading clubs of smaller countries such as Luxembourg or Ireland will always be at a disadvantage next to the leading clubs of bigger markets.

The break-even rule makes no allowance for the commercial disparities between individual national leagues, which means smaller clubs are hit harder, proportionately, than larger ones. Without the ability to invest in their longer-term success, smaller clubs will stay small. This is clearly anticompetitive.

Even if FFP were sufficiently legitimate and necessary to justify its distortions of EU principles, however, it would still have to clear a final hurdle: proportionality. UEFA would need to convince the EU's judges in Luxembourg that FFP is the least restrictive means of achieving its aims.

This seems unlikely. Existing UEFA regulations already require clubs to prove before the start of each season that they have no overdue payables to other clubs, to their employees or to tax authorities. With these safeguards already in place, it is hard to see why we need to stop clubs from incurring losses if and when they can safely fund them from the resources at their disposal.

If the ECJ were to declare FFP invalid, the ruling would hold for any FFP-based rules adopted at the national level. EU law also applies to restrictive practices that affect the territory of any single member state.

None of this implies, however, that competition law prevents UEFA from improving football's financial model. If UEFA is serious about tackling the issue, it should address the root causes of the competitive imbalances among teams. UEFA's territorial model could be redrawn, for instance, to allow clubs from major cities but small countries to become more competitive. More ambitious revenue-sharing between clubs and/or whole leagues, partly financed by a "luxury tax" on high-spending clubs, would also help.

But such solutions would run against the interests of the clubs with the most political clout. Some of Europe's biggest clubs are, unsurprisingly, the loudest supporters of rules that entrench their dominance. The time is right for a strong reminder from the EU's antitrust authorities that football, like any other multibillion-euro industry, must comply with the law.

Mr. Dupont is a European competition lawyer specializing in professional sports.
 
Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Yet, with a 36,000 sized stadium we may have been able to break the top 4 mould of Champions League teams. By hard work, astute signings and a brilliant financial brain. Which so happens to be the right way to do things in football.

Last time I looked spending money on the infra-structure didn't accrue against FFP. So, if a teams has the fans it can break the top 4 Champions League monopoly.
 
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Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

I like his suggestions, but I don't agree with him totally that FFP is wrong. Doesn't it still allow clubs to invest in infrastructure? Therefore you should still be able to rise up and be competitive, just doing it in the sustainable way. There's no fun in letting clubs cut the route to success by getting it instantly, and it promotes the way of thinking that leads to clubs spending beyond their means and struggling.
 
Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

I can't agree that it's anti-competitive. If anything, it helps the clubs that are doing things the right "right way". Clubs need to stop throwing money around in the hope that they will eventually get it right, start making long term plans and actually stick to them.

Changing manager every other season and letting the new guy spunk a load of money you don't really have isn't the way to sustained success. Invest in youth, give players a chance to develop. Instead of bringing in overpaid mercenaries whose only lasting effect is crippling a club financially, how about the manager gets out on the training pitch and works with the players he's got? That's certainly more beneficial to a team than sitting in your office, chatting with your agent buddies about how big your take will be.
 
Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Of course FFP is anticompetitive.

In no other business sector would an owner be penalised for investing in his / her business.

Investing in a business is essential in order for it to grow. Denying a business such investment - or, at least, penalising it for benefiting from such investment - is guaranteed to do only one thing: maintain the status quo, with the companies that already lead the market having a perpetual advantage over all the others. That is the very definition of anticompetitive.

Sorry, but there's no getting away from that truth.
 
Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Of course FFP is anticompetitive.

In no other business sector would an owner be penalised for investing in his / her business.

Investing in a business is essential in order for it to grow. Denying a business such investment - or, at least, penalising it for benefiting from such investment - is guaranteed to do only one thing: maintain the status quo, with the companies that already lead the market having a perpetual advantage over all the others. That is the very definition of anticompetitive.

Sorry, but there's no getting away from that truth.


Football clubs are a poor example of a business though. In any other business you would try to eliminate your competition by stealing their customers.

You can't eliminate football clubs via business, as fans attatch themselves to the club, rather than the product. Each football club needs the others around it to be successful. It's a mutually beneficial sector. If all the businesses are stronger then there will be far more interest. It's one of the reasons La Liga isn't a the globally dominant brand.
 
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