Financial Fair Play

[Superhudd]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

That "saying" comes from a Kevin Costner film!

It was true, so to speak, for that story. But it's not a universal truth. Far from it.

Protecting clubs from financial difficulty is laudable. But there are ways of achieving that without introducing the kind of rules encompassed by FFP. Anyone who believes that FFP is just about protecting clubs from financial difficulty isn't looking at the bigger picture and at the self interest that characterises the clubs at the top of the European game. FFP is every bit as much about preserving the status quo and preventing lesser clubs from ever again threatening the hegemony of the current elite.

A smaller club building a big, new stadium without being allowed a concomitant investment in the team will be building a white elephant. In order to attract new fans, you have to assemble a team of sufficient quality. Penalising or preventing a club from doing just that is a restriction of trade. Pure and simple.

And that makes it any less worthy.. its still true.

Again.. simply not true. Any sugar daddy would have paid for the stadium therefore to start of with the ticket prices would be reasonable to entice the fans in.. then over time the prices will rise in line with what star players they bring in. A gradual rise.


You seem to be supporting exactly the thing you are against.. the easy ride of an elitist group. Bring me 90 Billionaires all willing to spend a billion then we maybe get on the same page.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

I meant that he was trying to put it into business level. I've put in place enough systems to pick and choose who I/we work with to know that its perfectly legal globally to hav a system where you set the rules providing you don't descrmibaye against any laws.

Anti competitive only exists in a situation within a companies normal place of work. Were talking European competition where you have to a) qualify against a criteria set out in advance b) meet that companies selection criteria to gain entry into that market. Seems straightforward to me hence why Malaga aren't complaining as the criteria has been communicated in advance

Sounds like a pretty interesting line of work. Also you seem to state that it works the way i thought it should.


Time will tell though, we'll have to see if and when anyone tries to get around FFP sanctions.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

And that makes it any less worthy.. its still true.

Again.. simply not true. Any sugar daddy would have paid for the stadium therefore to start of with the ticket prices would be reasonable to entice the fans in.. then over time the prices will rise in line with what star players they bring in. A gradual rise.


You seem to be supporting exactly the thing you are against.. the easy ride of an elitist group. Bring me 90 Billionaires all willing to spend a billion then we maybe get on the same page.

Not at all. I'm just not getting emotional about it.

No matter how much anyone rails about the unfairness of billionaires investing in their clubs, there is nothing restrictive about it.

There is a great deal that is restrictive about FFP.

Oh, and......."if you build it, they will come" is not a universal truth.

There are countless examples around the world that disprove it.

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Not at all. I'm just not getting emotional about it.

No matter how much anyone rails about the unfairness of billionaires investing in their clubs, there is nothing restrictive about it.

There is a great deal that is restrictive about FFP.

Oh, and......."if you build it, they will come" is not a universal truth.

There are countless examples around the world that disprove it.

The rest of the league is restricted. Again find me 90 billionaires then we can get on the same page.

So your not in the slightest tinkled that Tottenham have missed out on Champions league football the past 5 years or so.. or other clubs that sit outside the elitest group, which includes the two Billionaire owners you want to support or in part there ideals.

 

[milo]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

The author of the article, who is an expert in the area of EU competition law (especially relating to sport), takes the opposite view.

And the owner of the newspaper that published the article has an interest in maintaining a status quo that has served them very well and a history of using their various media outlets to promote their other business activities.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

The rest of the league is restricted. Again find me 90 billionaires then we can get on the same page.

So your not in the slightest tinkled that Tottenham have missed out on Champions league football the past 5 years or so.. or other clubs that sit outside the elitest group, which includes the two Billionaire owners you want to support or in part there ideals.

You're approaching this issue from an emotional standpoint.

And, while that's understandable, emotion won't play a part in any decision to be made in the event that FFP is challenged. Any decision will be made on the basis cold, hard points of European competition law.

I am amazed that so many people fail to see that FFP could very well make matters worse for football generally and clubs like ours in particular. I suspect that they simply haven't yet examined and thought through the full implications.

Nevertheless, contrary to your claim, I'm not acting as an advocate for any side of the argument. I'm simply explaining (as does the original article) why, I believe, FFP will prove to be unenforceable if challenged at the European Court of Justice.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

And the owner of the newspaper that published the article has an interest in maintaining a status quo that has served them very well and a history of using their various media outlets to promote their other business activities.

You've lost me there, fella. Was that just a general observation about the WSJ or was it also intended to be pertinent to the author's views about FFP?

 

[milo]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

You've lost me there, fella. Was that just a general observation about the WSJ or was it also intended to be pertinent to the author's views about FFP?

I'm not best placed to comment on the author because I had never heard of him until you posted this article and I only have a passing knowledge of European competition law.

My point was that the WSJ is owned by News International which is the major shareholder in Sky and owns several UK newspapers, all of which have done very well out of football since the inception of the Premier League and the Champions League.

 

[metalgear]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

FFP shouldn't just focus on the profitability of clubs. Its just too easy to create sham deals to make the club profitable.
The emphasis should be more about FAIR play rather than FINANCIAL fair play - but that just goes to show how narrow the mandate of FIFA (and the EPL) has become.

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

You're approaching this issue from an emotional standpoint.

And, while that's understandable, emotion won't play a part in any decision to be made in the event that FFP is challenged. Any decision will be made on the basis cold, hard points of European competition law.

I am amazed that so many people fail to see that FFP could very well make matters worse for football generally and clubs like ours in particular. I suspect that they simply haven't yet examined and thought through the full implications.

Nevertheless, contrary to your claim, I'm not acting as an advocate for any side of the argument. I'm simply explaining (as does the original article) why, I believe, FFP will prove to be unenforceable if challenged at the European Court of Justice.

On a Tottenham standing probably its emotive.

But as you keep saying FFP restricts Billionsaire play things. And yet I have not seen you answer the fact that Billionaire play things restrict 95% of the rest of the football league.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

On a Tottenham standing probably its emotive.

But as you keep saying FFP restricts Billionsaire play things. And yet I have not seen you answer the fact that Billionaire play things restrict 95% of the rest of the football league.

Once again, that's an emotional reaction to the issue. It has no basis in law. Business owners are allowed to invest in their businesses. They are not preventing anyone else from investing in their businesses.

It may seem unfair that one club can afford to spend much more than another. But it isn't institutionally so.

FFP would make it institutionally so. And that is why FFP will very likely fall foul of European competition law.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Once again, that's an emotional reaction to the issue. It has no basis in law. Business owners are allowed to invest in their businesses. They are not preventing anyone else from investing in their businesses.

It may seem unfair that one club can afford to spend much more than another. But it isn't institutionally so.

FFP would make it institutionally so. And that is why FFP will very likely fall foul of European competition law.

Can't the Premier League make up certain laws as a condition of entry into the competition? do not see how that can be against the law, it is their own competition and surely they can do as they please.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Can't the Premier League make up certain laws as a condition of entry into the competition? do not see how that can be against the law, it is their own competition and surely they can do as they please.

They can make any rules they like which relate to football specifically or sport generally.

But the instant that they start making rules governing and restricting the running and financing of businesses, it inevitably falls under the jurisdiction of the EU.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

They can make any rules they like which relate to football specifically or sport generally.

But the instant that they start making rules governing and restricting the running and financing of businesses, it inevitably falls under the jurisdiction of the EU.

Except when they do have rules that relate to the financing of the business.


Like points deductions if you go into administration. That has nothing to do with the sport or football.

In fact it's penalising the football for a failure in finances. Pretty much what FFP will be doing.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Competition law is there to stop monolopys or oligopolys. Uefa and FIfa by that logic have a monopolised market but their run by their members for the benefit of the members which is a if icy any number of clubs and countries which puts r monopoly situation out if the equation

The guy who wrote the article may b an expert on EU competition Law but I bet he had never put together any OJEU tenders high are all part of EU competition law.

The reality is its a private competition (nothing to with business) and with that in mind competition law doesn't come into it. If it was the premier league establishing some rules which restricted trade I could see it happening as that's the place of work for the clubs, however ago an there is no case law that could be referred too a far as in aware.

I'm not and expert on this but I used to spend a £1M a day across the world in a senior position for a very large retail business and I was trained up on competition law by UK government who I was also audited by. I jut can't work out how any of the laws in place can relate to a competition with entry criteria.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Beside that, all entrants would need to be from the EU. There are countries that age teams in Europe that aren't in the EU, Turkey for example so the "laws" are not applicable to them

 

[milo]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

FFP shouldn't just focus on the profitability of clubs. Its just too easy to create sham deals to make the club profitable.
The emphasis should be more about FAIR play rather than FINANCIAL fair play - but that just goes to show how narrow the mandate of FIFA (and the EPL) has become.

FFP includes rules on sponsorship having to be at market rates

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

Once again, that's an emotional reaction to the issue. It has no basis in law. Business owners are allowed to invest in their businesses. They are not preventing anyone else from investing in their businesses.

It may seem unfair that one club can afford to spend much more than another. But it isn't institutionally so.

FFP would make it institutionally so. And that is why FFP will very likely fall foul of European competition law.

As others have said.. in order to participate in the EPL they need to go along with FFP... challenging it will see them very lonely very quickly. They need the other clubs more than the other clubs need a fancy dan billionaire owner. The recent agreement at the recent Chairmans meeting should have told you that running off to the EU whinning like a little bitch won't help at all. Someone can challenge all they want they just will not be part of the family.
It seems the common sense approach of natural progression through infrastructure growth is the preferred method.. just as Utd and Arsenal and very soon Tottenham would have proved.

Maybe had they not come in and tore apart a decent model where wages were affordable or transfer fees were not ridiculous then maybe... ooopps no thats emotive!

BTW you know anyone that will send an email off to the EU yet regarding Hammers Govenment subsidy puckmeup. GHod I hope someone does.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

I'm not best placed to comment on the author because I had never heard of him until you posted this article and I only have a passing knowledge of European competition law.

My point was that the WSJ is owned by News International which is the major shareholder in Sky and owns several UK newspapers, all of which have done very well out of football since the inception of the Premier League and the Champions League.

And the WSJ is known for using its pages to promote Uncle Rupert's positions. What other reason is there that the WSJ is the journal of choice for anti-global warming advocates?

 

[milo]

Re: Very interesting article on Financial Fair Play

And the WSJ is known for using its pages to promote Uncle Rupert's positions. What other reason is there that the WSJ is the journal of choice for anti-global warming advocates?

Exactly, News International frequently uses its media outlets to promote its other business interests