parklane1
Vivian Woodward
Spot on.
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Cristian Romero
- Thread starter AdamB
- Start date
Spot on.
parklane1
Vivian Woodward
As long as he can read a game a good DM would be the same as a Keane/ Viera.
parklane1
Vivian Woodward
Unless their role is to get the ball and short pass. To a more creative player.
Although saying that, it could be good.
thfcsteff
Vivian Woodward
Which, in fairness, is just ignorance based on a cliche snapshot.
He didn't have one red card last season, indeed, since his wreckless stage which seemed to peak in early 2024, he has largerly avoided any stupid cards (5 yellows in all comps last season albeit his appearance record was less).
I have to say, the more I think about his unforced errors early last season, the more I find myself buying into the whole 'we fudged our pre-season treatment of players like him who had played a lot of football' scenario. I think he was overplayed for a year prior. He simply wasn't fit/focussed enough. I also do think the lack of protection in front of him/cover if he was too far upfield absolutely exposed him. AND yes, some of those errors were just silliness!
Bedfordspurs
Graham Roberts
We will see I guess
I do agree the red card thing is the kind of diatribe sky push
The were in talking about were nor when we pushed upfield by the way
He certainly wasn’t focussed enough
Do you remember Leicester away?
Brighton away?
Wolves away ?
When we conceded in those games we were not the attacking force
thfcsteff
Vivian Woodward
I remember them all. I am not disagreeing per se. What I am saying is that there appear to be some legit reasons, albeit I found myself exasperated at all of those.
Bedfordspurs
Graham Roberts
The reason of us being exposed imo can’t be attributed to the errors where he is culpable
Doesn’t mean there aren’t many others that came from over exposure though
Seeing the athletico result tonight may make the desire him more.. game they wont pay up but good for us
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Genuine question - has there been anything written deeply on how we messed up our pre season last year? I know Ange touched on it in an Aussie interview too.
I would be fascinated to read about it. The disagreements. Clearly there was something going on with the medical staff too.
thfcsteff
Vivian Woodward
Me as well mate. I suspect we will never know, however changing the strength and conditioning team last summer cannot have helped!
Muttley
Andy Sinton
I still genuinely believe people need to start looking at the defensive errors, not just Romero's, but in the context of how Ange was asking these guys to play the offside. Naturally, Romero would want to sweep and he want to go with his man and back himself to win a one-on-one battle. It's exactly what he does for Argentina. Now consider that at Spurs he has to spend all his cognition calculating where his team mates are, which line they need to be holding and just trusting that the forward will venture offside. Ange was even using the 18 yard line as a guide based on what I could see. That is a distraction to Romero that in the split second makes him a weaker defender. It goes against his instincts.
I'm perfectly OK with high defensive lines and catching players offside. What I'm not OK with is the entire offside system that we used in the league in very deep areas. You could just see the discomfort and mass confusion in the players. You could see one player playing the opposition onside all the time as they just couldn't handle the system, especially with the constant change of players.
I actually want to see how Frank build out the defensive system throughout the team. It needs to be a lot smarter than we've had for 2 seasons where we've conceded over 60 league goals.
I'm perfectly OK with high defensive lines and catching players offside. What I'm not OK with is the entire offside system that we used in the league in very deep areas. You could just see the discomfort and mass confusion in the players. You could see one player playing the opposition onside all the time as they just couldn't handle the system, especially with the constant change of players.
I actually want to see how Frank build out the defensive system throughout the team. It needs to be a lot smarter than we've had for 2 seasons where we've conceded over 60 league goals.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I’m not sure I agree, I would argue that Romero was perfectly allowed to play to his instincts in Ange’s system. Indeed I think the idea that he would advance up to win the duel knowing that VDV was covering in behind was a key part of the system.
I really think the confusion in the players was down to barely having a settled defensive line or settled 11 from one game to the next. We seemed to do absolutely fine when playing a more defensive game (either overall or in phases) when we actually had our first choice players on the pitch.
And what about when he was making the same stupid errors and same rash brainless tackles when Conte was manager? Shall we blame that on Ange's tactics too? Lets not pretend that Romero's problems have magically appeared since Ange was manager.....
Muttley
Andy Sinton
Somewhat true. It will always be easier with a stable defence but you have to be able to switch defenders. That's football. Also, Davies was labelled our most intelligent defender and he was culpable for not getting the offside instruction multiple times. The Bowen Hammers goal was a great example. You could tell that Davies and Danso were instructed to use that 18 yard box line as the guide. 2 Hammers players knew exactly what our offside strategy was all about. Danso even blocked his as he knew he couldn't stay with him. Bowen timed his run perfectly and we never recovered. 2 points lost.
My biggest beef was trying the intricate offside when the ball is in wide areas and we were in the 18 yard box. We should be focusing on stopping the cross and we should forget offside and just get with markers and jump with them in the middle. Instead you could see over and over players just organising themselves to get the player offside.
Muttley
Andy Sinton
People get so tetchy even now when Ange is questioned about his defensive tactics. It really is quite simple. Ange's teams, regardless of players choice, conceded over 60 goals in 2 consecutive seasons. To use an Ange word, that was unprecedented. Now we can blame players, and they are certainly not blameless, but eventually fans will need to realise that Ange's tactics and coaching absolutely sucked in this area. What I'm saying is that the deep offside trap was a huge cognitive load on the players. It was a major contributor in my mind to the poor defensive record.
If it helps some fans, then by all means make Romero the spacegoat. For me, he just needs a coach who can help him keep all the good stuff and eliminate the other without losing his edge. He needs to work with the coaches and analysts to help him to paint different pictures in his head in key moments and make slightly different decisions. What he doesn't need is to be worried about whether he should be on the 18 yard line or on the penalty spot line when a cross is incoming. That's just dumb coaching.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
He reminds me of Ramos. Played so close to the line in terms of discipline. His aggression is part and parcel of what makes him the CB he is. And believe me, any team in the world would have him right now IMO
Yiddo
Steffen Freund
He is no where near the level of Ramos.
Bedfordspurs
Graham Roberts
I’m not sure the top 4 teams in the league would take him
He hasn’t shown anywhere near enough consistency
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I get what you’re saying, but part of me thinks it can be argued that the 18 yard line as defensive line was an attempt to take a cognitive load off of the players. That line doesn’t change, so if the players organise around that, it should reduce error.
I also think that Bowen goal was just a Ben Davies error. Simple as that. He messed up. But he’s our 5th choice centre back for a reason, and played a lot more than 5th choice centre backs usually do. And I think part of the reason we conceded so many goals was the relative lack of games we actually got anything approaching our first choice 11 on the pitch.
I understand too that we conceded a lot of goals under Ange, but I just would have loved to have seen his system in its intended final form. Because when that happens, it was about squeezing the opposition in their half and not giving up too many chances at all. When a team is unable to actually play the way they have been built and trained to play, there are always horrible stats in goals conceded and scored. And then it looks like the manager is missing something obvious. But usually it just requires getting players back fit and things start falling into place.
But yeah on Romero specifically, I agree we were using the 18 yard line. I’m just not convinced it was beyond the ability of top level footballers to carry out. I also don’t know exactly why we were using it, but a top level manager trying to win games probably had a reason. Maybe it was precisely because we didn’t usually play with a double pivot, and so we would be vulnerable to the slips in behind. And this was a way to mitigate that while allowing our players to take up the offensive positions we want them to have in possession?
Bedfordspurs
Graham Roberts
He even does it playing for his country
It’s his game and when it works it’s great
When it doesn’t …