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Cheatski are still scum

Jurgen the German said:
Again, for what specifically is he rated highly for? He can't defend, his positioning is awful, his decision making is appalling and he's a cheat to top it off. His passing is very good and he's shown he can excel playing in front of the back four on rare occasions, but he's a shocking defender.
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His ability on the ball, his ability not to dive into tackles, his positioning is actually pretty good for proper defending but he's not much good on offside traps. He's a good leader and is often able to turn a team performance around.

He is certainly prone to errors, but that's an acceptable trade IMO. If he was always at his best and didn't make errors then he'd be one of the defenders a top club holds and doesn't let go of and he'd never have ended up at Chelsea.
 
scaramanga said:
His ability on the ball, his ability not to dive into tackles, his positioning is actually pretty good for proper defending but he's not much good on offside traps. He's a good leader and is often able to turn a team performance around.

He is certainly prone to errors, but that's an acceptable trade IMO. If he was always at his best and didn't make errors then he'd be one of the defenders a top club holds and doesn't let go of and he'd never have ended up at Chelsea.
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Are you serious?
 
Kandi1977 said:
Are you serious?
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Yeah, he stays on his feet way more than your average English defender.

As with most defenders and keepers, people remember the howlers and not the good stuff. Gomes is a good example of this. To those of us who watched him every week, he saved us way more points than he cost us - to the press and pundits he was a clown who only ever made it into their discussions when he screwed up. All people remember is the screw ups.
 
scaramanga said:
His ability on the ball, his ability not to dive into tackles, his positioning is actually pretty good for proper defending but he's not much good on offside traps. He's a good leader and is often able to turn a team performance around.

He is certainly prone to errors, but that's an acceptable trade IMO. If he was always at his best and didn't make errors then he'd be one of the defenders a top club holds and doesn't let go of and he'd never have ended up at Chelsea.
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On the ball I will give you, disagree with the rest. Granted defenders will make errors at some point, but he makes far too many to be considered a top defender or even a good defender.
 
scaramanga said:
Yeah, he stays on his feet way more than your average English defender.

As with most defenders and keepers, people remember the howlers and not the good stuff. Gomes is a good example of this. To those of us who watched him every week, he saved us way more points than he cost us - to the press and pundits he was a clown who only ever made it into their discussions when he screwed up. All people remember is the screw ups.
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Gomes was too unpredictable and inconsistent. No one doubts his shot stopping abilities. I'd go as far as saying his performances in 2009/10 when we finished 4th were the most outstanding and consistent I have seen from a Spurs keeper in my lifetime in which he cost us more points than he saved us. Only to follow that with the dross performances he put in the next season were without doubt the worst, most inconsistent goalkeeping I have seen. He was either a 9 out of 10 or a 2, that was his problem, the Adebayor of goalkeeping if you will minus the unprofessional behaviour on and off the pitch. Goalkeeper is the one position where you can't afford to have that level of unpredictability.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Gomes was too unpredictable and inconsistent. No one doubts his shot stopping abilities. I'd go as far as saying his performances in 2009/10 when we finished 4th were the most outstanding and consistent I have seen from a Spurs keeper in my lifetime in which he cost us more points than he saved us. Only to follow that with the dross performances he put in the next season were without doubt the worst, most inconsistent goalkeeping I have seen. He was either a 9 out of 10 or a 2, that was his problem, the Adebayor of goalkeeping if you will minus the unprofessional behaviour on and off the pitch. Goalkeeper is the one position where you can't afford to have that level of unpredictability.
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How many goalkeepers are as good as Gomes at his best and always at that level?

Chelsea aren't fishing in that pond for keepers or defenders - not even with their endless funds. Real, Barca, United, Bayern and maybe one or two from Italy on history alone can compete for these players. If you're not one of those clubs you have to choose between someone a few steps down in quality but consistent or you can go for the same quality in patches, knowing that there will be some flaws. Personally, I admire Chelsea (didn't think I'd ever say those words) for going for the latter.
 
scaramanga said:
How many goalkeepers are as good as Gomes at his best and always at that level?

Chelsea aren't fishing in that pond for keepers or defenders - not even with their endless funds. Real, Barca, United, Bayern and maybe one or two from Italy on history alone can compete for these players. If you're not one of those clubs you have to choose between someone a few steps down in quality but consistent or you can go for the same quality in patches, knowing that there will be some flaws. Personally, I admire Chelsea (didn't think I'd ever say those words) for going for the latter.
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Not many, but on the flipside, how many make the kind of laughable howlers that he made on a regular basis for us? Letting shots squirm through his arms, hands, legs you name it. Allowing daisy cutters to trickle over the line, making questionable decisions because of a rush of blood i.e. the penalty he gave away against Blackpool just seconds after saving one.
 
Jurgen the German said:
...the penalty he gave away against Blackpool just seconds after saving one.
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That was Big H in a nutshell, lol.

I wasn't laughing in the Paxton at the time as I recall...

Luiz's brickness is magnified by the stupid money people keep paying for him. Wouldn't swap him for Toby or Jan.
 
scaramanga said:
Yeah, he stays on his feet way more than your average English defender.

As with most defenders and keepers, people remember the howlers and not the good stuff. Gomes is a good example of this. To those of us who watched him every week, he saved us way more points than he cost us - to the press and pundits he was a clown who only ever made it into their discussions when he screwed up. All people remember is the screw ups.
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Ohh I see. Like this :
 
Jurgen the German said:
On the ball I will give you, disagree with the rest. Granted defenders will make errors at some point, but he makes far too many to be considered a top defender or even a good defender.
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Yeah. It's like saying that the Lancia Beta was a very good car, apart from it disintegrating when it got wet.
 
Kandi1977 said:
Ohh I see. Like this :
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Or when he led a defence that won the CL in 2012? Or when he turned around a PSG performance that enabled them to knock Chelsea out?

I know he makes mistakes, and I know that when he does they show up. If he didn't, he'd be at Real or Barca - the fact is, there are very few defenders as good as he can be that don't make mistakes. Those ones are at the top clubs and are staying there - Chelsea won't get a sniff.
 
scaramanga said:
Or when he led a defence that won the CL in 2012? Or when he turned around a PSG performance that enabled them to knock Chelsea out?

I know he makes mistakes, and I know that when he does they show up. If he didn't, he'd be at Real or Barca - the fact is, there are very few defenders as good as he can be that don't make mistakes. Those ones are at the top clubs and are staying there - Chelsea won't get a sniff.
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If not for Mario Gomez bottling it, Chelsea would have lost that final 8-1. The only game in that entire CL run you can give them credit for is the 2nd leg semi final at Camp Nou, every other game was a complete joke in which they were 2nd best and somehow Leicestered their way to the spawniest cup win ever.

Genuine question Scara, would you rate him if he wasn't foreign and had a nice English name? :)
 
scaramanga said:
Yeah, he stays on his feet way more than your average English defender.

As with most defenders and keepers, people remember the howlers and not the good stuff. Gomes is a good example of this. To those of us who watched him every week, he saved us way more points than he cost us - to the press and pundits he was a clown who only ever made it into their discussions when he screwed up. All people remember is the screw ups.
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Hmmmm.... He bloody well should stay on his his feet way more than an average English defender.... He cost PSG £50 million a couple of years ago and Chelsea £30 million this Summer.

I think your likening of him and Gomes is quite appropriate, both can be excellent on their day, but when not on their day they can be awful. Personally I was quite happy when we replaced Gomes with a less spectacular but far more consistent keeper. It seems that PSG are also taking the same stance with Luiz? I'm not sure what Chelsea are up to here however in taking him back? Although it does seem it was a signing made by Abramovich as opposed to Conte (who I think wanted to bring in Chiellini?). I actually cannot think of a starting centre half from any of the perceived top 6 clubs in England that I would like to have at Spurs any less than Luiz. It must be a nightmare to defend alongside a player where you have no idea what he is likely to do?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Hmmmm.... He bloody well should stay on his his feet way more than an average English defender.... He cost PSG £50 million a couple of years ago and Chelsea £30 million this Summer.

I think your likening of him and Gomes is quite appropriate, both can be excellent on their day, but when not on their day they can be awful. Personally I was quite happy when we replaced Gomes with a less spectacular but far more consistent keeper. It seems that PSG are also taking the same stance with Luiz? I'm not sure what Chelsea are up to here however in taking him back? Although it does seem it was a signing made by Abramovich as opposed to Conte (who I think wanted to bring in Chiellini?). I actually cannot think of a starting centre half from any of the perceived top 6 clubs in England that I would like to have at Spurs any less than Luiz. It must be a nightmare to defend alongside a player where you have no idea what he is likely to do?
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Totally this! There are at least a dozen CB's that overall are better than Luiz. We alone have 3, then there is Koscielny, Dann, Williams, Jagielka, Huth, Lovren, Kompany, Otamendi (just less of a clown than Luiz), Smalling, Fonte, Reid. Probably more, but these were the ones that sprung to mind.
 
Jurgen the German said:
If not for Mario Gomez bottling it, Chelsea would have lost that final 8-1. The only game in that entire CL run you can give them credit for is the 2nd leg semi final at Camp Nou, every other game was a complete joke in which they were 2nd best and somehow Leicestered their way to the spawniest cup win ever.

Genuine question Scara, would you rate him if he wasn't foreign and had a nice English name? :)
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If he were English he wouldn't be as talented. He'd have had the skill knocked out of him in favour of "You kick ball with head. You do cross. You do push. You do big slide tackle" years ago.

Do you think Dier would be the player he is now had he come up through the English system?
 
scaramanga said:
If he were English he wouldn't be as talented. He'd have had the skill knocked out of him in favour of "You kick ball with head. You do cross. You do push. You do big slide tackle" years ago.

Do you think Dier would be the player he is now had he come up through the English system?
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It didn't stop Harry Kane or Deli Alli.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Hmmmm.... He bloody well should stay on his his feet way more than an average English defender.... He cost PSG £50 million a couple of years ago and Chelsea £30 million this Summer.

I think your likening of him and Gomes is quite appropriate, both can be excellent on their day, but when not on their day they can be awful. Personally I was quite happy when we replaced Gomes with a less spectacular but far more consistent keeper. It seems that PSG are also taking the same stance with Luiz? I'm not sure what Chelsea are up to here however in taking him back? Although it does seem it was a signing made by Abramovich as opposed to Conte (who I think wanted to bring in Chiellini?). I actually cannot think of a starting centre half from any of the perceived top 6 clubs in England that I would like to have at Spurs any less than Luiz. It must be a nightmare to defend alongside a player where you have no idea what he is likely to do?
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His reliability varies greatly depending on his partner. For the first few matches of the WC he was excellent next to Silva, when Silva got suspended he went to bits. Cahill is clearly not the correct partner, and I don't think he was the intended one either. I suspect he is backup for Cahill but everyone appears to be injured.
 
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