"Away from home we play with no fear"

[Raziel]

I don't think our home support is any worse than the home support of the vast majority of other PL clubs. I've been to a few different grounds now. If the home team plays well, their fans will (perhaps) do well. If the home team doesn't play well, the support will also be poor. It's the same everywhere. I actually think we are better than a lot of other home supporters. At some grounds, home fans will hardly ever get a song going at all.

This, let's not even talk about the grounds where the supporters don't sing, they boo or hiss ... wtf?

Re the at home stuff? since when is this new? Spurs has struggled both under HR and AVB against sides that sit back to defend. Guess what? most sides do, difference is, as we get better, more sides do it, and we don't have years of experience trying to counter it. The only manager for me who has managed in the PL and consistently put away the lower teams year after year was SAF, everyone else usually struggles and you get a lot of what you saw against Hull, lots of possession, lots of half chances, the eventually something happens (penalty, deflected shot, etc.) and opposition teams or fans say "jammy basterds"

 

[thfcsteff]

Come off it Scara, there are plenty of home fans who are ****-poor. I was watching the Utd/Stoke game the other day and the 'Theatre of Dreams' was like a morgue, until their 3rd goal when they acted like they'd just done the treble.

Managers should not be using the fans as a spacegoat for his and his team's shortcomings.

Bang out of order.

Mate...read what AVB said...he said that the dressing 'feels' the pressure and negativity. It was a statement of something which exists that we would not know about unless someone told us.

I personally hope our 'supporters' man the **** up and get behind the team...it has not always been pretty, and the manager has certainly not always been blameless, but supporters need to SUPPORT their side in my not at all humble opinion, and if not, honestly, I would rather they ****ed off and didn't bother going to the stadium! About as much use as a can of petrol in a fire. I get sick of it to be honest mate, every ****ing week...I sometimes wonder if we have the largest collection of manic depressive 'supporters' in the country?

 

[scaramanga]

I don't think our home support is any worse than the home support of the vast majority of other PL clubs. I've been to a few different grounds now. If the home team plays well, their fans will (perhaps) do well. If the home team doesn't play well, the support will also be poor. It's the same everywhere. I actually think we are better than a lot of other home supporters. At some grounds, home fans will hardly ever get a song going at all.

We used to be much, much better. Under Jol we were one of the top 2 or 3 in the country IMO.

 

[milo]

If I were playing in front of our current home crowd I'd play it safe and avoid the spectacular so as not to incur their wrath too.

It's a chicken and egg question which I suspect will divide fans down the middle. IMO the atmosphere's been going downhill since well before AVB got here and our good results have been in spite of the crowd. I'm not sure why anyone would do it, but it's like someone cloned the West Upper and spread them all around the other stands.

Spot on. I think the negativity has been the contributing factor in the failure of a number of players careers at Spurs.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Well Levy could do something about it. He could find a way of getting the 1882 movement a block at home games.

 

[markysimmo]

Well Levy could do something about it. He could find a way of getting the 1882 movement a block at home games.

Like United did ast week at their CL game with a singing section

 

[inkpenspur]

Mate...read what AVB said...he said that the dressing 'feels' the pressure and negativity. It was a statement of something which exists that we would not know about unless someone told

I agree with this. A decent manager looks at the tiny percentages that improve overall performance. (See Dave Brailsford at UK Cycling for the best exponent of this approach).
If AVB says the players feel inhibited even 1% by the crowd getting on their back, then he is right to mention it. I recall Wenger and Ferguson both mentioning crowd atmosphere before, this is not a unique statement by any means. The Spurs faithful have destroyed some players' careers by the weight of crowd expectation in the past. I think there is an argument to say that we did not help Docherty. Rebrov, or Postiga settle well at the Lane as they failed early in their careers to meet the weight of expectation heaped upon them by us lot.

 

[Briddo1882]

I agree with this. A decent manager looks at the tiny percentages that improve overall performance. (See Dave Brailsford at UK Cycling for the best exponent of this approach).
If AVB says the players feel inhibited even 1% by the crowd getting on their back, then he is right to mention it. I recall Wenger and Ferguson both mentioning crowd atmosphere before, this is not a unique statement by any means. The Spurs faithful have destroyed some players' careers by the weight of crowd expectation in the past. I think there is an argument to say that we did not help Docherty. Rebrov, or Postiga settle well at the Lane as they failed early in their careers to meet the weight of expectation heaped upon them by us lot.

This.

Lets face it, people have been complaining on this board for a long time now that the atmosphere is in the majority of games rubbish. AVB draws reference to it and all of a sudden people over-react and criticise him, "negative tactics", "boring", "too many mistakes" etc. Has anyone actually considered that when a player makes a mistake he has a significant proportion of the crowd calling him a "useless ____" (feel free to add your own adjective). As a result they are going to be cautious. Do people not find it a coincedence that the fans favourites tend to be able to play with freedom because they are not getting constantly moaned at? VdV, Modders, Bale and this season Townsend. The one criticism on here that always baffles me is the pelters Walker gets. He is one player that always gives it his all, he is fast, exciting to watch and trys to make things happen - but in the main the comments you read about him are those being critical of his defensive frailties.

Like Steff said earlier in the thread, get behind the team, we've all been to games where the atmosphere has been electric and the team have performed brilliantly. Is it just me that thinks maybe there is some kind of correlation between good atmosphere and good performance?

 

[scaramanga]

Well Levy could do something about it. He could find a way of getting the 1882 movement a block at home games.

I think that's a very good idea, unfortunately the logistics of it would be pretty tough. I'd love to see the 1882 crowd together at all matches, but every season ticket holder has the right to their seat and you can't just move somebody from their seat for someone else.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Spurs boss Andre Villas-Boas: "We looked like the away team, we played in a difficult atmosphere with almost no support. We have a wonderful set of fans but they can do better. Away from home we play with no fear and we need that atmosphere at White Hart Lane.

"We don't need the negativity that was in White Hart Lane today."



Reality of it

Crystal Palace 0:1 Tottenham
****e performance saved by a Penalty

Arsenal 1:0 Tottenham
Dont need to say anymore

Cardiff 0:1 Tottenham
Got out of jail with a last minute goal form Paulinho

Aston Villa 0:2 Tottenham
Absolutely turgid first half where we couldnt pass it past the half way line. Scored a ridiculously lucky goal then got overrun and managed to sneak a goal on the counter


I can't see any difference between home or away league performances.
Norwich at home was the best we've played all season.

No, the reality of it is that we fully deserved to beat Crystal Palace, Arsenal we dominated possession on their ground which is no mean feat but struggled to create chances, absolutely battered Cardiff pretty much from first minute to last and once we got the breakthrough against Villa could have scored another 3.

Let's not rewrite history to try and make a point. Be consistent with the facts. I'm not saying the Palace game for example was a virtuoso master-class but we clearly deserved to win. Similarly against Swansea and Norwich at home we fully deserved the points and in the case of Norwich played some really great stuff. These last 2 games at home have been more difficult but it's flat out not true to say it's been that way all season because it hasn't.

 

[the fox in the box]

The frustrations are not just to do with AVB's team.... It has been bubbling for years...

You can tell after the first 5 mins of a game if we are going to struggle as we just seem to lack that oomph to get the breakthrough when teams park the bus against us.

It is frustrating, and not just for the fans but players and coaches.

It is inevitable when there is a bad pass there will be groans....



Saying that, everytime we showed a bit of urgency or had a good bit of attacking play we were on our feet egging them on and encouraging them... Its just so difficult for us to get going when they are not showing any threat and a 0.0 looks like being played out.

Both fans and players have a responsibility to lift the place and make WHL a place to fear

 

[Lemonade Money]

I think that's a very good idea, unfortunately the logistics of it would be pretty tough. I'd love to see the 1882 crowd together at all matches, but every season ticket holder has the right to their seat and you can't just move somebody from their seat for someone else.

Very true. What we need is a clean slate, and a new stadium provides that opportunity. If this is not resolved then surely we'll just have an even bigger crowd tutting their way through games.

As for the existing ground, are season ticket holders spread out evenly around the ground, or are there any blocks that are relatively 'season ticket free'? And would season ticket holders be willing to move if it meant a better atmosphere?

 

[Stenno]

The pathetic home atmosphere at the lane lately is scarily reflected by the attitude around this forum.. It's just so negative regardless of good results. It's painful, and must be painful for players to endure.

 

[chancer]

I wonder if AVB's mistake was the forum he said this in - the post match interview. Might have been better releasing a statement to the fans this morning and making a more considered case that atmosphere effects performance. That way, it'd be less high profile and would mostly only be heard by Spurs fans, not the whole world. It would also have seemed more considered and thought-through, which would have given it more weight.

 

[paxtonwolf]

The frustrations are not just to do with AVB's team.... It has been bubbling for years...

You can tell after the first 5 mins of a game if we are going to struggle as we just seem to lack that oomph to get the breakthrough when teams park the bus against us.

It is frustrating, and not just for the fans but players and coaches.

It is inevitable when there is a bad pass there will be groans....



Saying that, everytime we showed a bit of urgency or had a good bit of attacking play we were on our feet egging them on and encouraging them... Its just so difficult for us to get going when they are not showing any threat and a 0.0 looks like being played out.

Both fans and players have a responsibility to lift the place and make WHL a place to fear

Totally agree with your post. It's a two-way street for me.

Yes the fans should get behind the team more, but the team need to provide something for them to get excited about. Yesterday, at times they looked like they were playing in the opposite direction the number of passes that went backwards

 

[punk_is_back`]

Redknapp called the fans "Stupid" in his "as good as it gets" rant, yet he never got the same level of abuse I'm seeing here and on other forums. AVB is only asking us to get behind the team, he's not ****ging us off or calling us bad things.

 

[harr1984]

Come off it Scara, there are plenty of home fans who are ****-poor. I was watching the Utd/Stoke game the other day and the 'Theatre of Dreams' was like a morgue, until their 3rd goal when they acted like they'd just done the treble.

Managers should not be using the fans as a spacegoat for his and his team's shortcomings.

Bang out of order.

Was he using it as THE reason for an average display, or pointing out it doesn't help?

You use Man Utd as an example but they are actually used to success. Our fans behave as if we should be killing any team in the world which is ridiculous....

 

[billyiddo]

The atmosphere at WHL is toxic sometimes and you can tell that it effects the players. It is of course a two way street as others have said and there are many reasons why it has fallen so low these past few years so it's not entirely the supporters fault, however it's the supporters who have the ability to change it around.

Also im not sure he's referencing the lack of songs or chants - it's probably more the general jeers and what not whenever there's a misplaced pass or when we're struggling to create - it's that kind of stuff which creates an unneeded pressure on the players.

 

[kanoute16]

Mate...read what AVB said...he said that the dressing 'feels' the pressure and negativity. It was a statement of something which exists that we would not know about unless someone told us.

I personally hope our 'supporters' man the **** up and get behind the team...it has not always been pretty, and the manager has certainly not always been blameless, but supporters need to SUPPORT their side in my not at all humble opinion, and if not, honestly, I would rather they ****ed off and didn't bother going to the stadium! About as much use as a can of petrol in a fire. I get sick of it to be honest mate, every ****ing week...I sometimes wonder if we have the largest collection of manic depressive 'supporters' in the country?

But doesn't everybody have the right to support their team in their own way? What does 'supporting' your team mean? Singing for 90 minutes? Being at the games? Not being at the games and posting in a forum while you watch it on Sky or some dodgy channel?

Also, if you touch yourself but do not like what you are seeing even though you desperately want things to change what do you do? sit there quietly and take it? Accept it because you are winning (alot like the gooners did under graham!)? shout and abuse the team because they are not giving you value for money?

I agree with avb, the atmosphere was poor. Now that I know that it affects the players I may sing more at home games. The team can play their part as can the manger - dish up something to get the juices flowing. That isn't happening at the moment so our fans don't feel like singing. It's an emotional thing that comes from a response!

 

[SteveAWOL]

The crowd at WHL certainly ain't as rowdy as it used to be back I first started going to games back in the early 1990s and imho the spiralling cost of tickets has had a big part to play in that, as most of the mates I used to go with cannot afford to shell out well over £100 to take their family to a game whilst my mates who are still in their 20s would rather save their money and watch games on the internet for free.

Doesn't help that this StubHub partnership allows day trippers to buy tickets without even so much as a Lilywhite membership, as I used to be able to get decent seats at face value on the TicketExchange for just about any game but when I've looked this season seats in Park Lane or Shelf Side are mostly going for £100+ after fees. I refuse to waste my money on a seat in the West Stand as the prawn sandwich phalanx never stand-up to join in any chants and whenever I've been sat in Paxton stand in recent years I invariably get sat next to miserable old sods who just sit and grumble the entire game.

All these late Sunday afternoon kick-offs also prevent most fans from getting tanked up as they would for a Saturday 3pm game and thus be a bit more merry and likely to sing some songs... Something more inspiring than the theme music from those rubbish Star Wars prequels for when the teams walk onto the pitch might also help whip the crowd into a frenzy too...

Despite all that the atmosphere at WHL is still better than the Woolich whingers at least \o/