AVB versus Martinez

[Raziel]

Martinez is an interesting manager, personally I think he is massively unproven because he's never had a full consistent season.

We saw his Wigan side capable of doing amazing things for short spells, Everton has had a good season so far, but can he put a full 50-60 game season of good results together?
AVB had his Porto season, and he had last season with us (72 points, record tally).

We will have to judge at the end of season, my opinion is AVB would be a lot of trouble if Everton finished above us (I don't see it btw)

 

[milo]

Martinez is an interesting manager, personally I think he is massively unproven because he's never had a full consistent season.

We saw his Wigan side capable of doing amazing things for short spells, Everton has had a good season so far, but can he put a full 50-60 game season of good results together?
AVB had his Porto season, and he had last season with us (72 points, record tally).

We will have to judge at the end of season, my opinion is AVB would be a lot of trouble if Everton finished above us (I don't see it btw)

I agree

 

[Jurgen the German]

weird isnt it.

If Martinez had our resources and we had no money i would think that the claim would be opposite

makes you wonder why we buy anyone at all

Yeah exactly. If they had spent £100m and we had to rely on mostly loan deals then people would use that to discredit Martinez. I don't honestly expect all of out 7 signings to turn out to be good signings, but I would like to think at least 4 of them will succeed and it shouldn't take an entire season to get them firing.

 

[milo]

Yeah exactly. If they had spent £100m and we had to rely on mostly loan deals then people would use that to discredit Martinez. I don't honestly expect all of out 7 signings to turn out to be good signings, but I would like to think at least 4 of them will succeed and it shouldn't take an entire season to get them firing.

It is not about discrediting anyone and the sooner people stop making disparaging comments about "people" the better. What "people" are trying to do is explain why they might have had a marginally better start than us and look more fluid. This is entirely consistent with "people" saying the best time to judge AVB and Martinez is at thge end of the season.

 

[africanspurs]

I have no idea what this has to do with my post. I was comparing Martinez/Everton to AVB and us.

Injuries are part of the game, my point was about Everton/Martinez so far being fairly lucky in this regard and that most likely they won't be as lucky for all of the season and some of the problems AVB has had to face Martinez is yet to come up against.

what has AVB had to deal with that his huge squad cant handle. its why we commited 110 big ones. Doesnt mean anything..AVB himself is lucky that he has possibly the second biggest /best squad in the prem right now....

people get injured for everton , they just keep chiming away...baines, gibson, hibbert, osman.....someone else just fights for their place and takes the spot.

its funny but technically speaking...everton have lost fellaini and baines for long periods of time

everton havent been lucky or unlucky ..they just have the same deal as the rest of the prem

 

[africanspurs]

Martinez is an interesting manager, personally I think he is massively unproven because he's never had a full consistent season.

We saw his Wigan side capable of doing amazing things for short spells, Everton has had a good season so far, but can he put a full 50-60 game season of good results together?
AVB had his Porto season, and he had last season with us (72 points, record tally).

We will have to judge at the end of season, my opinion is AVB would be a lot of trouble if Everton finished above us (I don't see it btw)

being able to navigate and keep that wigan team up and winning a trophy should be something to write home about no?

it doesnt mean you are proven granted but it sure shows you've got something impressive.

 

[billyiddo]

is there only one set standard for how a team/squad should react to situations or something?

 

[Raziel]

being able to navigate and keep that wigan team up and winning a trophy should be something to write home about no?

it doesnt mean you are proven granted but it sure shows you've got something impressive.

Well the problem with his Wigan results were the lack of consistency, they would get thrashed for weeks on end, then go on a run and beat top teams and just barely scrape survival. When he did win the cup, it cost them their PL place (he wasn't able to manage both in the same season which would have made him a lot more credible for me).

At the top 4-6 places in the league, you can't have that inconsistency.

I'm not saying I dislike Martinez or really offering an opinion, I just think for someone Spur's fans rave about, he very unproven, far more so in my opinion than AVB.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It is not about discrediting anyone and the sooner people stop making disparaging comments about "people" the better. What "people" are trying to do is explain why they might have had a marginally better start than us and look more fluid. This is entirely consistent with "people" saying the best time to judge AVB and Martinez is at thge end of the season.

There's no need to get so defensive. Would you rather I name names in every thread? Which method is more likely to lead to conflict?

As for the the last line of the post, I agree 100%, judge them both at the end of the season, but if they do go on to finish above us then I for one will say fair play to Martinez and Everton and it may very well cost AVB his job depending on which position we finish in the league. Unless an epidemic hits our squad or we have loads of injuries then there really is no reason why we shouldn't finish above them.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Well the problem with his Wigan results were the lack of consistency, they would get thrashed for weeks on end, then go on a run and beat top teams and just barely scrape survival. When he did win the cup, it cost them their PL place (he wasn't able to manage both in the same season which would have made him a lot more credible for me).

At the top 4-6 places in the league, you can't have that inconsistency.

I'm not saying I dislike Martinez or really offering an opinion, I just think for someone Spur's fans rave about, he very unproven, far more so in my opinion than AVB.

I believe the jury is still out on both. You will find plenty of people both on this forum and in real life who feel both are well on their way to becoming top managers, whilst others believe they are relatively unproven still or worse for different reasons.

 

[milo]

There's no need to get so defensive. Would you rather I name names in every thread? Which method is more likely to lead to conflict.

Yes, I'd rather you named names because if you name people they can respond.

Quite often when someone posts about a generalised group, they misrepresent or exagerate what other people are saying in order to make their argument easier. Classic strawman.

 

[milo]

Quite often when someone posts about a generalised group, they misrepresent or exagerate what other people are saying in order to make their argument easier. Classic strawman.

And it is difficult for people to respond because it ius unclear whether you are referring to what they have said.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Yes, I'd rather you named names because if you name people they can respond.

Quite often when someone posts about a generalised group, they misrepresent or exagerate what other people are saying in order to make their argument easier. Classic strawman.

Well I for one can't be bothered to go back and revisit every page of every thread to try to remember every single poster that shares a certain or similar viewpoint every time I disagree with somebody or simply post an opinion that isn't in response to somebody. I haven't exaggerated anything. I seriously hope we get top 4 this season because this place is becoming drearier by the day, debates about the manager lead to full on confrontations and posters seem to take criticism of the team or manager personally.

 

[milo]

Well I for one can't be bothered to go back and revisit every page of every thread to try to remember every single poster that shares a certain or similar viewpoint every time I disagree with somebody or simply post an opinion that isn't in response to somebody. I haven't exaggerated anything. I seriously hope we get top 4 this season because this place is becoming drearier by the day, debates about the manager lead to full on confrontations and posters seem to take criticism of the team or manager personally.

Maybe it is better if we continue this by PM. I don't wish to take this thread off topic.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Maybe it is better if we continue this by PM. I don't wish to take this thread off topic.

Ok fair enough.

 

[Kingdawson]

Yes, I'd rather you named names because if you name people they can respond.

Quite often when someone posts about a generalised group, they misrepresent or exagerate what other people are saying in order to make their argument easier. Classic strawman.

jurgen I advise you....DON'T NAME NAMES.

 

[africanspurs]

Well the problem with his Wigan results were the lack of consistency, they would get thrashed for weeks on end, then go on a run and beat top teams and just barely scrape survival. When he did win the cup, it cost them their PL place (he wasn't able to manage both in the same season which would have made him a lot more credible for me).

At the top 4-6 places in the league, you can't have that inconsistency.

I'm not saying I dislike Martinez or really offering an opinion, I just think for someone Spur's fans rave about, he very unproven, far more so in my opinion than AVB.

He time and time again showed the ability of coming out of an impossible situation , bringing entertaining football along with him.

have you realised that you are talking about inconsistency with WIGAN? Did you expect that level of miracle? Cause if wigan were consistent then they would be top 6 team year in year out

its almost like saying that irrespective of how good you are...you are only as good as your teams results IRRESPECTIVE of the quality, depth and resources you have at your disposal

essentially if you have the fortune of managing a club with like 5 or 6 top class players and about 2 or 3 world class ones in a league that is bottom feeder **** then you could promote yourself as amazing with the great things you did

yeah i dont know, i kind of prefer looking beyond that

it does happen though in sport............ in boxing.

dont get me wrong though, you are right...he is unproven. but then i dont think AVB is proven either against REAL hardship

 

[africanspurs]

Well I for one can't be bothered to go back and revisit every page of every thread to try to remember every single poster that shares a certain or similar viewpoint every time I disagree with somebody or simply post an opinion that isn't in response to somebody. I haven't exaggerated anything. I seriously hope we get top 4 this season because this place is becoming drearier by the day, debates about the manager lead to full on confrontations and posters seem to take criticism of the team or manager personally.

dont do it mate. honesty is not worth ANYTHING here in this situation LOL

 

[africanspurs]

jurgen I advise you....DON'T NAME NAMES.

jinx

by The Lonely Island

 

[milo]

jurgen I advise you....DON'T NAME NAMES.

Please cut this out KD, it is divisive and unfair. No one has ever got into trouble on this board for responding to a post in a respectful manner no matter what their point of view.