metalgear
Nayim
While we have struggled to replace Dier and Davies who are world class according to. Some here
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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC
- Thread starter Daisuk
- Start date
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Pains me to say it but the best way to change perceptions is to do what A*nal are currently doing, playing an attractive brand of winning football.
metalgear
Nayim
For the price that soneone will accept. I doubt its Paratici.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Made worse by own own fans who constantly buy into it and miss quote statements
Facts are that we are still relatively new kids on the block in Europe and its not so much a culture of losing its a culture of unfamiliar territory. We have been in more finals, semi finals and Europe's elite competition than any time in the clubs history collectively but the mentality has yet to catch up or set in stone IMO.
I mean we won more than the last 20 years in the 10 years before but I would hardly say we had a winners mentality
Maybe we are not up to the levels expected by Conte and Jose in that respect but we have never been a Juve, AC Milan, Liverpool or Real Madrid in 140 years of football (bar a 3 year period)
But as long as people keep feeding into that BS narrative rather than show a level.of realism and big picture thinking then the media and rivals will just trott it out because they clearly have some fans on the rise and strings....that's how it works
The shame is that part of Conte job is to install that mentality and help build the club om the journey to establish itself, but he decided to take the shortcut and coat the club off like a two bob journo or Arsenal fan
Despite the lack of success in silverware I have seen the club break alot of its own glass ceilings in the last 20 years, some I never thought I would ever see such as a CL final, the games against the likes of Dortmund home and away, pitting against and slapping a Real Madrid etc. The other problem is people seem less willing to reflect on the club objectively because the likes of City and Chelsea have distorted what normal football progression is along with what Leicester did as a freak one off...
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spurspinter1
Paul Stalteri
While we have struggled to replace Dier and Davies who are world class according to. Some here
Quote one poster who has called Davies world class. I haven't seen it said of Dier either but some people perhaps overrate him - But to suggest anyone has said Davies is world class is baseless rhetoric.
El Guepardo
Rafael Van Der Vaart
I can’t imagine anyone called Dier World Class. The very idea is laughable. He makes FAR too many basic defensive mistakes to be anywhere close to World class. He tries hard and I respect him as a person but he is not, and never will be, a World class centre back. I’m unsure as to why he even gets in the England squad.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Wages are the bigger issue
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
He doesn’t have the alternative to bring in for themWhile we have struggled to replace Dier and Davies who are world class according to. Some here
metalgear
Nayim
Said in jest, calm down. I actually think world class can be a problem too. Who is to say definitely Kane isn't a problem in the dressing room. For example if he insisted that he wanted to score more than assist. Hypothetical of course. But I think the selfish players that Conte claims is the real issue here and we might get an idea by who in the original Poch group gets shifted in the next transfer window.
Strikers are by nature selfish. It is their job to score. It's the rest of the teams job to not concede and get them the ball so they can score.
spurspinter1
Paul Stalteri
Making inaccurate hyperbolic comments isn't the same as making a jest.
Presumably the comment about "world class" players potentially being a problem is a jest as well? It's just an idiotic theory regarding Kane too, you are really on a roll here
johnola
Mauricio Taricco
Making inaccurate hyperbolic comments isn't the same as making a jest.
Presumably the comment about "world class" players potentially being a problem is a jest as well? It's just an idiotic theory regarding Kane too, you are really on a roll here
Mate you are getting a bit ott here. We know you are wrestling with this but please think there is a human being on the other end of your sharp tongue- come back tomorrow.
metalgear
Nayim
true but oversimplified? there's a balance that needs to be maintained by the manager. could say that defenders defend its up to the attack but we all know that 3 CBs need to contribute more to play up front.
also see guardiola get rid of cancelo not because of invididual competence. but of course budgets and a reliable manager needs to be in place first.
metalgear
Nayim
sorry if it upsets you - think about chelsea and liverpool and how their decline came at the same time as lampard's and gerrard's . sometimes a club can get too fixated on a player for longer than beneficial. of course there are other factors emotional factors to consider.Making inaccurate hyperbolic comments isn't the same as making a jest.
Presumably the comment about "world class" players potentially being a problem is a jest as well? It's just an idiotic theory regarding Kane too, you are really on a roll here
Ofcourse it's oversimplified. But you can't really complain about kane being selfish. He does assist and drop deep to help the team. He's no more selfish than most strikers. Tbf he has earned the right. Bar freekicks. That's taking the tinkle now.
spurspinter1
Paul Stalteri
"Calm down" / "Sorry if it upsets you" - There might be a human but one who has just graduated gaslighting 101 after making inane comments. Pointing out idiocy doesn't make me the bad guy here but I'll leave it at that.
I've scheduled a fight in a phone booth for half past 12 that I really can't afford to miss
Moving it back to Conte I was kind of amazed by the press conference but also totally understand him being passionately angry at the players, it's a feeling you eventually get used to as a Spurs fan.
metalgear
Nayim
The best football I've seen under Conte was with Son scoring from Kane's assists. Sit deep, defend with deep with Kane in midfield and spring the fast counter through him to Son.
So its not that Conte doesn't know how, but for some reason doesn't.
This season is wait until we can get the cross to Kane in the box. What gives? I can't believe that Conte can't see the difference.
johnola
Mauricio Taricco
"Calm down" / "Sorry if it upsets you" - There might be a human but one who has just graduated gaslighting 101 after making inane comments. Pointing out idiocy doesn't make me the bad guy here but I'll leave it at that.
I've scheduled a fight in a phone booth for half past 12 that I really can't afford to miss
Moving it back to Conte I was kind of amazed by the press conference but also totally understand him being passionately angry at the players, it's a feeling you eventually get used to as a Spurs fan.
Haha! You be nice to yourself too.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Chielini can do one. We showed plenty of fight and gumption at their ground coming back from 2-0 down to finish the game at 2-2 and go to the return leg with an advantage. That showed plenty of fight under pressure. The fact that Allegri outmaneuvered Poch in the return leg is not on the players. And to claim that in the past 20-25 years every single player that has put on a Spurs shirt doesn't want to play under pressure and doesn't want to play under stress is about as OTT as it gets (not to mention statistically improbable).
Players need to be self-motivated and some are more than others, but at the end of the day, it is up to the manager to get them further motivated and focused on the task at hand. And this selfish comment? Apart from Harry and Sonny to a lesser extent, who exactly from our main starters this season is selfish? Davies? Skipp? Emerson? Hojbjerg? Deki? Richie? Dier? Sess? Do Harry and Sonny control the dressing room and set the tone for others with their "selfishness?" (I doubt it.) So I'm struggling to think of who the selfish players are that Conte has called out.
Conte had enough time last season to assess the players' characters and go to the board and say "I need these players out." He started the season with a group of players who should have been the ones that met his criteria. Maybe not the highest quality players, but it's not quality he was calling out in his presser. He was calling out character. So what changed between the start of the season and now? How did such an exalted manager like Conte not manage to get the best out of the group of players he selected to at least beat fudging Sheffield and Forest in the cups? My guess is that it is his rigidity that is at fault. When you do not change your way, but insist on the same tactics game in and game out, tactics that do not work, you will start losing the players. It is not the players' fault that you are not trying to get the best out of them. It is your fault. The players see this and after a while they're just "fudge it." It's a normal cause and effect and to attribute it to anything else is highly disingenuous.
EDIT: just saw the Guardian article. Maybe my theory is not that far off, after all.
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Our problem isn't scoring goals though. Only arsenal and city have scored more. Our problem is conceding. We've conceded more than palace who just sacked their manager. Only 7 teams have conceded more.