Ange in or out?

[braineclipse]

I think the point with ETH is that United let the post FA Cup win emotions change their mind over sacking him that summer and ultimately nothing changed/improved with him staying

Didn't United also talk to candidates before then sticking with ETH. Reportedly after other candidates didn't want to join them. That would be the worst option imo.

I think this kind of situation is rare enough that looking at other examples only gives us a limited sample that won't be very informative.

 

[harr1984]

I suppose it could be argued that it shows how difficult it can be to sack a manager mid-season and turn things around.

I think Amorim will do well with them, but he needs a summer to begin to really sort the issues. He didn’t want to come when he did for that very reason, iirc?

We had both Conte and Redknapp come in and do well after managers were sacked in first couple of months...

 

[harr1984]

I think the point with ETH is that United let the post FA Cup win emotions change their mind over sacking him that summer and ultimately nothing changed/improved with him staying

Nothing has changed or improved since, they have got worse and as @ricky2tricky4city said it's because the problem is with the owners not the manager.....

 

[billyiddo]

Nothing has changed or improved since, they have got worse and as @ricky2tricky4city said it's because the problem is with the owners not the manager.....

Yeah I mean a bad appointment doesn't change what happened with ETH

 

[kb 1984]

Yes of course, not saying he has gone backwards but where is the 'progressing nicely' that the OP refers to with him?

Considering we routinely play badly/get deservedly beat there's little evidence of progress with any of our players.

Bergval Gray udogie Spence have all progressed

 

[harr1984]

Yeah I mean a bad appointment doesn't change what happened with ETH

To be honest I'm not convinced ETH was doing a bad job there. According to the masses Man U squad is full of brick, he had a PPG of 1.84 and won two trophies in a couple of seasons there...

 

[veryoldspur]

After the euphoria of winning the EL let's get back to the Ange in or out topic. I see the percentage has risen in favour of Ange staying, which doesn't surprise me, but I think some people may be thinking from the heart rather than the head. We achieved a total of 38 points this season and lost 22 games. If we do that next season we may well get relegated, and I for one believe that can happen if we don't get rid of who I consider is the worst manager we have had. Let's not forget Ramos, he may of won us a trophy, but we knew how poor he was, and he achieved a better points tally than Ange.

Despite what I think, I suspect Levy will give him the first ten games of next season then sack him as a result of poor performances. If we had of lost 1-0 on Wednesday I think he would have already been sacked

 

[tommysvr]

He still has the players and that’s huge. He has also delivered a trophy and we all know what that’s meant for us as fans and as club as a whole.

But 17th and 22 league defeats just can’t be ignored or dismissed. Nor can the fact that results are trending downward sharply. In all other circumstances he should be fired, no question no doubts.

But… we are Europa League champions… and with that I think what he has earned is a conversation with upper management about what he intends to do to stop the catastrophic league form.

and for them to consider keeping him, his answer has to contain in one shape or another all of the below:

“other managers adapted to my system and here is the new system I will use to counter balance that”

“I didn’t think we could implement this new style mid season and also go for the cup”

“but given a full preseason with this new system and You signing X for me”

“we will once again be humming”

“also I believe when other managers will adapt to it by doing this that and the other, but here is how we will counter balance that”

Then maybe it’s worth taking a risk sticking with him in to the new season - as getting another manager is a risk anyway.

Exactly. I’m not proposing that everything is right and he gets off Scott free for the League form. He needs to feel the pressure to do better next year and he has many questions. But winning the Europa League should absolutely give him the chance to answer them.

 

[DTA]

Exactly. I’m not proposing that everything is right and he gets off Scott free for the League form. He needs to feel the pressure to do better next year and he has many questions. But winning the Europa League should absolutely give him the chance to answer them.

I think that’s fair.

 

[Gutter Boy]

We've had four managers in six years, one of them got months because the fans turned on him.
Which one of them should we given more time.

None. We appointed 4 duds in a row.

It shouldn't be difficult, the criteria is pretty simple:
- plays assertive possession-based football, ideally with a 4-2-3-1
- is tactically disciplined, in both defence and attack
- is a decent human being with integrity

Some of those 4 it the first half of #2, whilst Nuno also ticked #3.

 

[billyiddo]

I think that’s fair.

It is fair and it's probably more or less how most people feel - but it's a sentimental decision based off the back of winning a trophy and the preexisting concerns/issues remain and should not be ignored,perhaps @tommysvr would do well to remember his own words there when he sees those concerns/issues being discussed across the forum

 

[harr1984]

Exactly. I’m not proposing that everything is right and he gets off Scott free for the League form. He needs to feel the pressure to do better next year and he has many questions. But winning the Europa League should absolutely give him the chance to answer them.

I'd say that's fair, I would give him the first 6-8 games I think that's a sensible amount:

1) We know what the previous issues have been with Ange, it will be easy to see very quickly if those flaws are still there or not

2) With only a couple of months gone it should be easy enough to attract the manager we want. Being halfway or longer into the season makes it much more difficult

3) The pressure on a new manager were he to take over right now and the narratives around would be huge. Sacking a guy who had just won a European trophy, I don't need to spell out the field day the media would have if the new guy doesn't get off to a flying start and questions around him does he not deliver trophies any time soon. However, were he to come in with us having a poor start off the back of a poor league season last time round, expectations and narrative would be very different

 

[glasgowspur]

None. We appointed 4 duds in a row.

It shouldn't be difficult, the criteria is pretty simple:
- plays assertive possession-based football, ideally with a 4-2-3-1
- is tactically disciplined, in both defence and attack
- is a decent human being with integrity

Some of those 4 it the first half of #2, whilst Nuno also ticked #3.

So you agree, it's not as easy as just appointing another manager, that's progress at least.

 

[Yiddo]

He been sacked yet?

 

[glasgowspur]

The only thing I can say unequivocally is that I'm glad it's not me that has to make the decision (as I'm sure plenty of people are as well) there's no easy answer and certainly none that's going to unite the fanbase.

 

[kb 1984]

The only thing I can say unequivocally is that I'm glad it's not me that has to make the decision (as I'm sure plenty of people are as well) there's no easy answer and certainly none that's going to unite the fanbase.

Sad really winning the cup should have bought us together instead we are further apart by the day

 

[Aldo]

To further this thought, why on earth would you stick with him after the League Cup semi, after Everton, after Leicester and all of the other defeats, giving him a chance to win the Europa League…only to go and fire him after he actually does it?

Why would you do it knowing how much the squad loves him? After seeing player after player show and speak of their affection for him?

It would be absolutely fudging macaronic from Levy.

To add to that … There’s no way Ange decided and acted alone to prioritise winning the EL. Tottenham is a £3bn business. 9th biggest / richest in the world. You won’t have one guy running around making decisions on such strategic shifts all on his own. He would have had to had buy-in from above, approval from Munn / Lange /Levy.

 

[Daisuk]

Sad really winning the cup should have bought us together instead we are further apart by the day

We can have both - if we're not so hellbent on our own position being the only way. I like the word the buddhists like to use - equanimity. Be calm about a bad situation. Equanimity FC. We can do it.

 

[billyiddo]

Sad really winning the cup should have bought us together instead we are further apart by the day

It brought everyone together in the moment and the immediate aftermath, however as Ange himself said* from the outset when quizzed on winning trophies, without the foundations in place to consistently compete, a one off trophy doesn't provide anything beyond that singular moment. Now that moment has passed we're left to ponder where we are heading


*can't find the quotes maybe someone can find them, but Ange was talking up the importance of putting everything in place furst over winning a trophy

 

[fernadez]

It brought everyone together in the moment and the immediate aftermath, however as Ange himself said* from the outset when quizzed on winning trophies, without the foundations in place to consistently compete, a one off trophy doesn't provide anything beyond that singular moment. Now that moment has passed we're left to ponder where we are heading


*can't find the quotes maybe someone can find them, but Ange was talking up the importance of putting everything in place furst over winning a trophy

Was posted in this very thread a few pages back