Ange in or out?

[harr1984]

There's a simple answer. The teams in the EL are PL mid-table level and (largely) below - often at Championship level, and possibly some are even below that.

Winning the EL will still be a huge achievement. But it shouldn't mask the overwhelming evidence of almost two years.

Anyhow, from here on I'm saying nothing but positive things for the next 12 days. I actually strongly believe we will beat United in the final.

A TROPHY IS COMING, PEOPLE!

For the love of GHod, please be negative - whenever we are confident/expect to win something we come unstuck ....

 

[billyiddo]

You're not going to be any less tinkled off with losing if you spend the next two weeks being negative so you may as well enjoy it/be positive/be confident in the mean time

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I do wonder if the whole club decided to sacrifice the league and focus on the EL

'wonder' !.....it was blatantly obvious

 

[DTA]

You're not going to be any less tinkled off with losing if you spend the next two weeks being negative so you may as well enjoy it/be positive/be confident in the mean time

I’m not sure about that. With spurs in my experience it’s the hope that kills you, the club has burnt me too many times.

I fully expect us to lose the final, probably in the most painful way yet.

That way I can only be pleasantly surprised… (damn it spurs are dragging me back in again)

 

[Robspur12]

Firstly lets be clear, I'm not making excuses for poor performances - just offering a theory as to why he might not look to be as pragmatic when for the majority of league games. But my overall sense is that we have changed our back 5 almost every week after those first 8 games, and therefore you are not going to get any consistency when this happens. And it's not like for most of these games we have had the usual back 5 other than 1 of them and we've just needed a Dragusin or Spence to come in for a few games and slot in, otherwise I would absolutely expect us to be more coherent. But if you go through our lineups week after week there are changes left right and centre to that defence.

It's no coincidence that our back 5 that consistently play together and know each others game conceded 8 goals in 8 games in the league, due to injuries haven't played together in ages and then return to play for our big Europa League games and have conceded one goal in three games. Away at Frankfurt who are very good at home, away at Bode who always score at home - both clean sheets. We have missed four of that back 5 for big chunks of the season and it would hurt any team badly....

Everything you say there is valid and difficult to argue with, although I'm giving it a very good try .

I still maintain the difference between the league and cup games is more nuanced than just the 1st choice back 5 being fit irrespective of what stats say. Tbh we don't even know his first choice back 5 apart from the GK and CBs I guess.

For me, there is a clear difference in how we set up in the cups as opposed to the PL. We are much more pragmatic in the former. I think this partly supports the argument that we have a decent squad but it's the system we play that is the reason for our poor league results. But equally could support your argument that we can play his preferred system if we have our first choice back 5.

I personally lean towards adapting style of play as injuries are going to happen and your first choice team is rarely going to be available. Good discussion though mate.

 

[Robspur12]

There's a simple answer. The teams in the EL are PL mid-table level and (largely) below - often at Championship level, and possibly some are even below that.

Winning the EL will still be a huge achievement. But it shouldn't mask the overwhelming evidence of almost two years.

Anyhow, from here on I'm saying nothing but positive things for the next 12 days. I actually strongly believe we will beat United in the final.

A TROPHY IS COMING, PEOPLE!

Yep for 12 days I am putting aside any negative feelings I have for Ange and just hoping for my son's sake (oh and mine) that we win a trophy. I am Spurs first always!

 

[DeanoAustin]

Everything you say there is valid and difficult to argue with, although I'm giving it a very good try .

I still maintain the difference between the league and cup games is more nuanced than just the 1st choice back 5 being fit irrespective of what stats say. Tbh we don't even know his first choice back 5 apart from the GK and CBs I guess.

For me, there is a clear difference in how we set up in the cups as opposed to the PL. We are much more pragmatic in the former. I think this partly supports the argument that we have a decent squad but it's the system we play that is the reason for our poor league results. But equally could support your argument that we can play his preferred system if we have our first choice back 5.

I personally lean towards adapting style of play as injuries are going to happen and your first choice team is rarely going to be available. Good discussion though mate.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. Our issues are not personnel, it's tactics and system. Not that personnel don't help but how many times in the last few European games have our defenders had to turn, sprint and defend facing our own goal? I can't remember many occasions. We haven't been over reliant on VdV using his pace to get us out of trouble.

We've looked like a well balanced team in the last two rounds. We've looked anything but in the league regardless of who plays. I can't fathom it.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Agree wholeheartedly with this. Our issues are not personnel, it's tactics and system. Not that personnel don't help but how many times in the last few European games have our defenders had to turn, sprint and defend facing our own goal? I can't remember many occasions. We haven't been over reliant on VdV using his pace to get us out of trouble.

We've looked like a well balanced team in the last two rounds. We've looked anything but in the league regardless of who plays. I can't fathom it.

Out of interest, how were the tactics yesterday compared to the previous league game away at West Ham?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Out of interest, how were the tactics yesterday compared to the previous league game away at West Ham?

Didn't see much of the West Ham game to be honest. Was only in and out of it as had stuff on with the kids.

Yesterday, I didn't think the line was ridiculously high. We also defended our own box when we had to and they couldn't really get through. Bissouma did a lot of cleaning up when required and I thought the whole midfield protected the defence really well. Our full backs did attack at the right times but didn't push forward relentlessly. Two examples with the full backs...

1. How many times do we concede with someone arriving late on the back post. Could have happened yesterday once or twice but Udogie particularly was alive to danger and in the right position to prevent us going a goal down.
2. Romero was imperious yesterday, really good. The one time he got caught was the last minute and Porro was round the back to clean up rather than allowing them in on goal (the one the ref initially inexplicably gave the pen for).

That's how full backs should play. They need to defend first and foremost IMO. Think Udogie has looked incredibly good when he's played recently which is mainly in Europe.

Edit: And we actually brickhoused a bit. You could see us slowing the game down from really early to ensure they didn't get any momentum.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Didn't see much of the West Ham game to be honest. Was only in and out of it as had stuff on with the kids.

Yesterday, I didn't think the line was ridiculously high. We also defended our own box when we had to and they couldn't really get through. Bissouma did a lot of cleaning up when required and I thought the whole midfield protected the defence really well. Our full backs did attack at the right times but didn't push forward relentlessly. Two examples with the full backs...

1. How many times do we concede with someone arriving late on the back post. Could have happened yesterday once or twice but Udogie particularly was alive to danger and in the right position to prevent us going a goal down.
2. Romero was imperious yesterday, really good. The one time he got caught was the last minute and Porro was round the back to clean up rather than allowing them in on goal (the one the ref initially inexplicably gave the pen for).

That's how full backs should play. They need to defend first and foremost IMO. Think Udogie has looked incredibly good when he's played recently which is mainly in Europe.

Edit: And we actually brickhoused a bit. You could see us slowing the game down from really early to ensure they didn't get any momentum.

Yeah, i forgot about some of the crazy Udogie clearances, proper defensive stuff those.
My only gripe is that we look relatively blunt going forwards with our solidity.

The passing movements and decisions going forwards look a bit off....but hey ho, solid defences are more likely to get you over the line so hear's hoping we can snuff out United in similar fashion and rely on Dom to nick a goal at other end (he seems to have a great record vs United...)