Ange in or out?

[carl]

Ange finished 5th in his first season. Bournemouth are 10th.

How about this season?

 

[Lilbaz]

At the end of the day it's not up to us.

The board will have to look at the whole season. Would a different manager do better or worse than ange has this season?

Will we improve next season under ange or should we change?

A trophy and cl would be massive points in favour of ange. Pretty sure though we were one of the favourites to win it this year going into it.

Also we are still 2 games away from winning it. It is by no means set in stone.

Bodo could possibly turn it around. Then should we be looking at their manager? Achieved more with far less resources.

I'll leave it till we see what happens.

 

[carl]

Honestly I find it crazy that we are even discussing whether Ange should stay or go if we in the Europa League. Our form for the past 18 months has been awful, performances have been awful and there is no sign of any improvement. This is the league table since the infamous Chelsea game.



Yet we have posters ridiculing other posters for suggesting we upgrade to Iriola who has his team currently 6 places above ours with less than half the resources!

A cup run cant and shouldnt mask what has been a truly awful 18 months. Even within the cup run weve had some really bad performances and this is against Europes c/b level clubs who are weaker than premiere league opposition. If I remember correctly it also went down to the last league game in order for us to qualify. Funnily enough probably our best performance was when we didnt play his preferred way!

Wigan beating Emirates Marketing Project in the fa cup, Birmingham beating Arsenal, Greece winning the Euros.........anything can happen in cup competitions but its league form that counts for me.

I sincerely hope we win this tournament, shake Anges hand and move onto the next chapter.

 

[tommysvr]

How about this season?

Did you read the post I was responding to?

This season we’re brick and they’re 10th.

 

[Grays_1890]

Honestly I find it crazy that we are even discussing whether Ange should stay or go if we in the Europa League. Our form for the past 18 months has been awful, performances have been awful and there is no sign of any improvement. This is the league table since the infamous Chelsea game.

View attachment 19425

Yet we have posters ridiculing other posters for suggesting we upgrade to Iriola who has his team currently 6 places above ours with less than half the resources!

A cup run cant and shouldnt mask what has been a truly awful 18 months. Even within the cup run weve had some really bad performances and this is against Europes c/b level clubs who are weaker than premiere league opposition. If I remember correctly it also went down to the last league game in order for us to qualify. Funnily enough probably our best performance was when we didnt play his preferred way!

Wigan beating Emirates Marketing Project in the fa cup, Birmingham beating Arsenal, Greece winning the Euros.........anything can happen in cup competitions but its league form that counts for me.

I sincerely hope we win this tournament, shake Anges hand and move onto the next chapter.

I believe a cup win will be huge and Ange may on that basis have earnt the right to a stay of execution, but given the absolute nose dive in league form for over a year and like I said before, I don't think the EL is some masterstroke of management by Ange where we have somehow given up a whole year of league form to concentrate on the EL, the EL form is the exception not the rule for Spurs under Ange and frankly his tenure has been abysmal

 

[Legohamster]

I believe a cup win will be huge and Ange may on that basis have earnt the right to a stay of execution, but given the absolute nose dive in league form for over a year and like I said before, I don't think the EL is some masterstroke of management by Ange where we have somehow given up a whole year of league form to concentrate on the EL, the EL form is the exception not the rule for Spurs under Ange and frankly his tenure has been abysmal

Him leaving after a cup win would be best for all parties

He can say hes won a cup,new clubs will see that on his CV and not just our abysmal record and help him get his next job
weve won a cup
New manager for us

 

[Robspur12]

Trust me, that won't be allowed to happen...in fact part of the reason I will not go to Bilbao should we get there is that there will be a percentage of supporters who -rather than allow the day to be the day- will spend half their time reminding me how terrible it's been, how awful Ange is, and being scared that if for some miraculous reason we win it that he'll be retained (which IMO is not happening). And whatever mindfulness I might try to practice, they will still do just enough to tarnish the day for me, if only because any victory would also then become a partial 'fudge you' and seriously, what IS the point of living life like that, or placing yourself in situations which will bring the worst out of you on great occasions?

At this point, one game and 2 goals to the good in our efforts to get to our first Europa/UEFA Cup Final since 1984, if people are STILL insisting on reminding everyone how poor our league season has been and re-circulating their thoughts and fears about the manager, then the real problem sits with them.
Why?
Why do it?
We all know.
We've all seen.
We all love the club, and we're all hurting.
So WHY joy-thief the few slivers of light left, especially when those slivers are actually getting pretty bright?

Again, it is that apparent and persistent 'need' within some areas of our supporters which will ensure that someone else has a crack at a ticket for Bilbao shoud we get there...

We can barely even manage the one off under ENIC, so if we actually happen to win a big trophy this year then the manager that helps us win it should at least get the chance to see whether he can turn it into sustained success.

I didnt write it lightly, I've supported Spurs for over 45 years through thick and thin I know the history of the club as well as anyone. But it's how I feel about Ange. Some of the league games have been so bad I cannot see a way forward with him and think it will be very damaging for him to start next season have the same kind of league form then sack him mid way through the season. Of course I would love a European trophy but I have been and will be consistent in my view of him.

 

[Lilbaz]

WE HAVEN'T WON ANYTHING YET!

People are getting way ahead of themselves with if's and maybes. Let's just concentrate on Thursday.

 

[Grays_1890]

And IF we won it, it would be the clubs trophy as much as anyones, the idea Ange leaves and it some how diminishes the cup win is utter guff

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I believe a cup win will be huge and Ange may on that basis have earnt the right to a stay of execution, but given the absolute nose dive in league form for over a year and like I said before, I don't think the EL is some masterstroke of management by Ange where we have somehow given up a whole year of league form to concentrate on the EL, the EL form is the exception not the rule for Spurs under Ange and frankly his tenure has been abysmal

You cannot keep a guy in charge who will have ended up losing as many league games as relegated sides
It’s just not the right thing
I sincerely hope we win the Europa because it’s a trophy and leaves a chance of progress
I fully expected it to be our best chance of a cup all season, which is why I booked the hotel in October
But… a cup win is knock out football and as great as it is…. It’s fudging huge…. It’s not the sign of a health club without league form. And our league form is as dead as a dodo

 

[Robspur12]

I completely respect your right to hold these views Steff, but I have to say I feel somewhat sad reading them. Allow me to explain…

Firstly, I feel sad that you feel you can’t get to the final should we get there for the reasons you outline above. That’s your prerogative and I can understand you feeling that way, but it’s still sad that you don’t think you’d be able to derive joy from potentially a wonderful experience, particularly for someone that Spurs mean so very much to.

Secondly, and the main point I’d look to constructively challenge you on, is about the so-called ‘joy thieves’.

For transparency, I’m not sure if I fall into this camp or not, but I’ve certainly found myself taking very little joy out of this season, including this run to the semis.

I’m not going to get into the reasons in detail, but broadly, and is a point I think we’ve agreed on in the past, football is a ‘journey’, not a destination. And, for me, this journey has been, well, brick. The issues with this season have been discussed at length here so I won’t bother to get into them again, but this season has sapped the life out of me as a Spurs supporting fan. To be clear, this isn’t just about Ange and how he’s lead the team, but all the polarised discourse and negativity surrounding the club, leadership direction etc..,

I know you and Milo have also been talking a lot recently about football being about the ‘moments’, but this is where is think our feelings diverge. Moments minus a journey and they’re meaningless. Poch’s moments meant something because of the journey we were on, I think on that we can agree, but the moments this season appear to be built on sand. For me, at least…

Happiness is, I guess, a choice and all that but what I’m looking to slightly challenge you on is by labelling people ‘joy thieves’ is potentially in itself adding to the polarised nature of the discourse. I would venture that there are a significant number of people that are not just shouting at the proverbial cloud, but are genuinely concerned about the direction of our great club and just don’t feel the ‘connection’ at the moment.

Obviously, your feelings are your own, but I also realise you are a great believer in society demonstrating more empathy and as an influential voice here, considering that there’s a vast spectrum of views, it’s something maybe to ponder on.

Anyway, I felt I had to get this down as it’s been something on my mind for a while. I hope you take this with the spirit with which it’s intended, which is wholly positive in intent!

COYS!

Great post. I think in many ways it sums up a lot of my feelings

 

[billyiddo]

Trust me, that won't be allowed to happen...in fact part of the reason I will not go to Bilbao should we get there is that there will be a percentage of supporters who -rather than allow the day to be the day- will spend half their time reminding me how terrible it's been, how awful Ange is, and being scared that if for some miraculous reason we win it that he'll be retained (which IMO is not happening). And whatever mindfulness I might try to practice, they will still do just enough to tarnish the day for me, if only because any victory would also then become a partial 'fudge you' and seriously, what IS the point of living life like that, or placing yourself in situations which will bring the worst out of you on great occasions?

At this point, one game and 2 goals to the good in our efforts to get to our first Europa/UEFA Cup Final since 1984, if people are STILL insisting on reminding everyone how poor our league season has been and re-circulating their thoughts and fears about the manager, then the real problem sits with them.
Why?
Why do it?
We all know.
We've all seen.
We all love the club, and we're all hurting.
So WHY joy-thief the few slivers of light left, especially when those slivers are actually getting pretty bright?

Again, it is that apparent and persistent 'need' within some areas of our supporters which will ensure that someone else has a crack at a ticket for Bilbao shoud we get there...

There wouldn't be any of that in Bilbao, that's a preposterous notion imho - we saw in the build up to the Bodø home leg that the focus in and around the match was one of positivity and support for the team, despite the overall situation being what it is - that would only be ramped up for a final.

 

[carl]

Did you read the post I was responding to?

This season we’re brick and they’re 10th.

Yes I did read your post, the one which you highlighted the part about Iraola having a higher ceiling than Ange only to say Ange finished 5th and Bournemouth are currently 10th.

If you're going to try and be smart at least be consistent

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

For once, I'm on the same wavelength! Trophies are few and far between when you're a Spurs fan, what's the point of spoiling a great cup run with thoughts of next season? To be honest, I didn't really rate our performances against Eintracht but if we have to win and - on top of that - entertain ever single fan on Earth, then we're going to feel miserable for a long, long time.

I hope whoever calls the shot at the club decides to pull the trigger at the end of the season, but as a fan, you can't even know for sure if they wouldn't keep Postecoglou even if we failed to win the EL. A lot of people on this very forum defend(ed) the idea that we should be doing a 'Ferguson' and keep him no matter what, because success will eventually come if you stick long enough with the manager.

While I don't agree with that at all, it could happen that someone feels the same at the club. If that's the case, then why not enjoy a European trophy in the meantime?

This isn't a side I will remember fondly, the way I remember the League Cup winning team of 07/08, or even the League Cup winning team of 97/98 and certainly not the way I remember the FA Cup winning team of 90/91. But I think I'd certainly remember fondly watching the club I've supported (often from afar) since I was a kid winning a European trophy.

Poor decisions can hurt the club; winning can't.

But not a gateway to success for Swansea, Portsmouth, Birmingham or Wigan.

 

[tommysvr]

Yes I did read your post, the one which you highlighted the part about Iraola having a higher ceiling than Ange only to say Ange finished 5th and Bournemouth are currently 10th.

If you're going to try and be smart at least be consistent

The highlighted bit was "given what he has demonstrated so far in the Remier League compared to Ange."

ie, Ange has already demonstrated a 5th place finish.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

But not a gateway to success for Swansea, Portsmouth, Birmingham or Wigan.

No, I agree but that's one more reason to make the most of the moment. Even at a club like Spurs, it's not something that happens every other season. Feeling miserable about it won't make next season any better or worse. It's something to look forward to in a season that hasn't been particularly good or pleasant - might as well enjoy it.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Trust me, that won't be allowed to happen...in fact part of the reason I will not go to Bilbao should we get there is that there will be a percentage of supporters who -rather than allow the day to be the day- will spend half their time reminding me how terrible it's been, how awful Ange is, and being scared that if for some miraculous reason we win it that he'll be retained (which IMO is not happening). And whatever mindfulness I might try to practice, they will still do just enough to tarnish the day for me, if only because any victory would also then become a partial 'fudge you' and seriously, what IS the point of living life like that, or placing yourself in situations which will bring the worst out of you on great occasions?

At this point, one game and 2 goals to the good in our efforts to get to our first Europa/UEFA Cup Final since 1984, if people are STILL insisting on reminding everyone how poor our league season has been and re-circulating their thoughts and fears about the manager, then the real problem sits with them.
Why?
Why do it?
We all know.
We've all seen.
We all love the club, and we're all hurting.
So WHY joy-thief the few slivers of light left, especially when those slivers are actually getting pretty bright?

Again, it is that apparent and persistent 'need' within some areas of our supporters which will ensure that someone else has a crack at a ticket for Bilbao shoud we get there...

I think I posted a while back that the whole possibility of going on a magical European tour with one part of the collective (ie the manager, a big part) not being carried along on the euphoria in harmony would blight such an event. A 'despite of him' feeling , a disgruntlement with him. A not seeing eye to eye. It definitely leaves a feeling of unease.

Personally, I don't like that scenario, BUT in my lifetime we've been in 3 European finals ...so by definition they're a rare event. To not go because of other supporters attitudes/nonsense will basically in this day and age most likely exclude you from going to a final ever again...such is modern fandom.

I'm sure, hanging with a group you are already friends/acquaintances with can insulate you from being riled?.

Lastly Bilbao is top 5 (imo) of European venues and citys to welcome your own club for a final. Hard to give it a miss.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

No, I agree but that's one more reason to make the most of the moment. Even at a club like Spurs, it's not something that happens every other season. Feeling miserable about it won't make next season any better or worse. It's something to look forward to in a season that hasn't been particularly good or pleasant - might as well enjoy it.

I use to go to every game because I enjoyed them, more so when we won, we have too many fans who want to suck all the joy out of the game, Thursday sounded like a good night to me, but within hours we had the usual doom and gloom on here.

 

[Grays_1890]

I use to go to every game because I enjoyed them, more so when we won, we have too many fans who want to suck all the joy out of the game, Thursday sounded like a good night to me, but within hours we had the usual doom and gloom on here.

Not sure its doom and gloom, its a discussion board, would be pretty slim pickings if all that was discussed was certain aspects of the club. I mean we have had a great Euro Campaign and a poor League one, thats just the facts we have to deal with as fans

 

[glasgowspur]

Honestly I find it crazy that we are even discussing whether Ange should stay or go if we in the Europa League. Our form for the past 18 months has been awful, performances have been awful and there is no sign of any improvement. This is the league table since the infamous Chelsea game.

View attachment 19425

Yet we have posters ridiculing other posters for suggesting we upgrade to Iriola who has his team currently 6 places above ours with less than half the resources!

A cup run cant and shouldnt mask what has been a truly awful 18 months. Even within the cup run weve had some really bad performances and this is against Europes c/b level clubs who are weaker than premiere league opposition. If I remember correctly it also went down to the last league game in order for us to qualify. Funnily enough probably our best performance was when we didnt play his preferred way!

Wigan beating Emirates Marketing Project in the fa cup, Birmingham beating Arsenal, Greece winning the Euros.........anything can happen in cup competitions but its league form that counts for me.

I sincerely hope we win this tournament, shake Anges hand and move onto the next chapter.

Despite the name the Champions League is a Cup, is that not worth winning?


Yes anyone can win a cup, but we were not in a position to the PL, only the truly delusional would have said that in August, and we weren't in the CL, the next highest rank tournament we could realistically win is the EL.
Now I don't believe that we have focused on the EL to the detriment of our PL form, so that's not an excuse to be as low as we are, but for me the league position will soon be forgotten about should we win in bilbao.

It's CL football, it's a huge monkey off our back and an opportunity to kick on.
Without ange.