Ange departs

[Bishop]

The poi

Wages are not what people make it out to be

- You have to look at all, Total Spend, Net Spend & Wages to determine what any club is really doing
- You have to acknowledge everyone is trying to reduce wage bills, Real Madrid is at 44%, is anyone calling them out on it?
- Spurs lower wages bill is heavily driven by the percentage of younger players (Bergvall, Gray, Udogie, Sarr, Wilson, Dragusin, Kinsky, etc. will and should not be on huge wages)
- Players who would break our wage bill (somewhere greater than 200K-250K/week), likely won't come to Spurs anyway (those are elite player numbers unless you are United)

I'm really struggling to see what player (in the post stadium revenue era), that would have come to Spurs, that was worth more than 250K/week that chose a "lesser" club just for the wages?

The point is those players wouldn't come to Spurs largely because we won't pay the wages required. They don't need to have chosen a "lesser club" they just have to not be available for us.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think if you pay high wages without being in a strong position on the pitch you end up with the type of higher earners that fill the United squad.

I mean...we could turn out to be United post Fergie. We could turn out to be Liverpool under FSG. Or Emirates Marketing Project. Or Chelsea under Roman. I'm fine taking that punt.

 

[Raziel]

The poi

The point is those players wouldn't come to Spurs largely because we won't pay the wages required. They don't need to have chosen a "lesser club" they just have to not be available for us.

Who are they though? seriously, not being a dingdong but this feels like a red herring.

Who in the post stadium/Covid era (where our spending has kicked up), was willing to come to Spurs and wages were the issue?

I get a decade ago, but since Ndombele (awful example that he is), what players we wanted, that were willing to come to Spurs, wages has been the issue?

 

[billyiddo]

I mean...we could turn out to be United post Fergie. We could turn out to be Liverpool under FSG. Or Emirates Marketing Project. Or Chelsea under Roman. I'm fine taking that punt.

I'm sure you are, it's not your money and when the 250k a week 5 year contracts don't work out we get to complain about how we wasted money on players not up to snuff...

The point was that unless you're a top team the type of players that are worth the outlay of big wages aren't going to look at us as they will have other better options - the type of players that do look at you are the Casimeros of this world looking for pay day when past their best.

 

[alekaras]

Can’t agree that we were not massive underdogs for that final I’m afraid Steff. That Liverpool team were already outstanding and hitting their peak. They finished a full 26 points ahead of us in the league and pushed Emirates Marketing Project to a record breaking points total to win the league and then won the league themselves the following year. They also had the experience of being in the final the previous year. We had a returning Kane, a wantaway Eriksen, Moussa Sissoko as our main central midfielder. In fact they had already beaten us twice in the league and were the bookies favourites.

Even if our prep had been better, even without that penalty decision, it would have been a tall ask to win that final.

Yet we outplayed them in the final, albeit marginally. Now whether that was because they were 1-0 up from the first minute and ceded possession, or it would have played out the same way, even if they hadn't gone up early, is anyone's guess.

But we didn't play like underdogs. Far from it. We had more possession, more shots on target, and higher xG.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think if you pay high wages without being in a strong position on the pitch you end up with the type of higher earners that fill the United squad.

This x 10

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Wages are not what people make it out to be

- You have to look at all, Total Spend, Net Spend & Wages to determine what any club is really doing
- You have to acknowledge everyone is trying to reduce wage bills, Real Madrid is at 44%, is anyone calling them out on it?
- Spurs lower wages bill is heavily driven by the percentage of younger players (Bergvall, Gray, Udogie, Sarr, Wilson, Dragusin, Kinsky, etc. will and should not be on huge wages)
- Players who would break our wage bill (somewhere greater than 200K-250K/week), likely won't come to Spurs anyway (those are elite player numbers unless you are United)

I'm really struggling to see what player (in the post stadium revenue era), that would have come to Spurs, that was worth more than 250K/week that chose a "lesser" club just for the wages?

And “player wages”, I believe, includes bonuses as well, hence why when we’re in the champions league our wage/turnover looks much WORSE than when we’re out of it.

We’ll see a bump in the wage/turnover in the next accounts that cover these for sure.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Yet we outplayed them in the final, albeit marginally. Now whether that was because they were 1-0 up from the first minute and ceded possession, or it would have played out the same way, even if they hadn't gone up early, is anyone's guess.

But we didn't play like underdogs. Far from it. We had more possession, more shots on target, and higher xG.

It was because they got the goal early. Similar to how we played v Utd after we scored.

 

[Mikey10]

Why? I cant see it… what has Frank done that excite you?

He’s pragmatic, tactically astute, develops players, and has hugely overachieved with the second smallest budget in the PL.

He’s also loved by everyone at Brentford (supporters, players and the hierarchy all praise him to the hilt), deals exceptionally well with the media, and he is by all accounts very involved on the training pitch.

The question I’d put back to you is, why wouldn’t anyone be excited?

 

[Bishop]

Who are they though? seriously, not being a dingdong but this feels like a red herring.

Who in the post stadium/Covid era (where our spending has kicked up), was willing to come to Spurs and wages were the issue?

I get a decade ago, but since Ndombele (awful example that he is), what players we wanted, that were willing to come to Spurs, wages has been the issue?

You're creating an artificial limitation by asking who wanted to come but we wouldn't pay their wages. The thing is paying them the wages is largely what makes them want to join in the first place.

If you offer the wages they will come.

Now whether you feel that's a smart way to do football business is a different question but there is a certain calibre of established player not available to us due to our inability to match their wages demands.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't like him as a writer and don't care for the tone of the article either.

Indeed.
I totally accept differences of opinion and alternate views, but repeat media hatchet jobs by writers looking to elevate themselves into 'literary giants' are naff.

 

[Bishop]

Yet we outplayed them in the final, albeit marginally. Now whether that was because they were 1-0 up from the first minute and ceded possession, or it would have played out the same way, even if they hadn't gone up early, is anyone's guess.

But we didn't play like underdogs. Far from it. We had more possession, more shots on target, and higher xG.

We didn't outplay them at all. They had the lead and said break us down. The fact that their defence did way better than our attack (we created the grand total of fudge all and didn't have a shot on target until the 70 something minutes says it all). We weren't battering down their hatches, their keeper wasn't MotM. We didn't actually play well, Liverpool didn't particularly either but they didn't need to, the game was in easy control for them. I also dunno where you got your xG stats we did not have the better xG at all.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's heartbreaking bringing it all back tbh Steff.

it is my friend. It broke my heart (and when we sacked him)...I believe HE never quite recovered either...

 

[Raziel]

You're creating an artificial limitation by asking who wanted to come but we wouldn't pay their wages. The thing is paying them the wages is largely what makes them want to join in the first place.

If you offer the wages they will come.

Now whether you feel that's a smart way to do football business is a different question but there is a certain calibre of established player not available to us due to our inability to match their wages demands.

Not sure I agree, to me (and I think @billyiddo is saying the same thing)

- Any player we see worth >250K/week is likely on the radar of teams that offer more than we do (in addition to wages)
- Or we do a United/Villa play, and just overpay for mid level players, which creates a bunch of long term problems.

I know we are having a chicken and egg type conversation but I really trying to think of a player worth 250K-300K/week right now, that would come to us?

Maybe to put in perspective, I'd really like to see Mbeumo come to us, I don't think he's out of our league by any means, but rumour is he has asked United for 250K/week, I wouldn't be aligned to paying him more than Son/Bentancur/Romero/Deki. If we were to get Osimhen to come to us, sure ..

 

[thfcsteff]

The summer of the CL final we dropped the best part of 120m for Poch. Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sess, Clarke,

For conte we spent about 240 on 10ish players. Kulu, Bentancur, Richy, Romero, Biss, Udogie, Spence, Perisic, Lenglet, Porro.

It was absurd really in several ways.

Levy made amends with Poch that summer. Hindsight (our old friend hahaha) now says he should've resisted the sadness and flouncing of fans such as me and cut the cord THEN, for the mercy of everyone. Instead, he made up with him...

...then he quickly got him Ndombele.

The Ndombele figure has always been misquoted. I thought it was 56 million quid, but check this out?

https://www.football.london/tottenh...-news/how-much-tottenham-really-paid-18243214

so perhaps only 43 million quid?

Then there was 25 on Sess, which some continue to say was a club signing along the lines of Levy liking to invest in young talent with high resale value.

Then we waited until pretty much the end of the window to get Gio (Poch wanted hom for pre-season) and ended up getting Gio for a 16 mill euro loan fee.

Poch wanted Bruno Fernandes and despite the player himself thinking he was joining, we did not get the deal done.

Clarke at 10 mill quid was definitely a 'club signing'.

Regardless of opinions on whether Poch was sufficiently backed (hypothetically I'd have rather, for example, the extra 10 mill spent on Clarke had gone into the Bruno deal), the facts are that we gave him one of his primne targets early on, did not give him the other, and gave him a 'list alternate' at the end of the window.
Having done that, we then proceeded to give him four months with them before saying 'offski' because Mourinho's charms and wile could not be resisted by Daniel.

I genuinely, genuinely think Levy does the very best by us that he can, but people are who they are. He is a brilliant businessman and thinks that way first. In fact, the Ndombele deal (whether 45 or 55 mill) is precisely the sort of punt that I believe is waaaay outside his comfort zone. Lo Celso deal? That's his type of deal (ironically he blew it in the end but mostly those work out for us).

In essence (for me) I realized over the last few years that berating Levy for who he is does nothing. And thinking of him as some 'nefarious operator' who is trying to squeeze us for every penny also doesn't match up. I think he cares about the club greatly AND will always, always be business prudent first.

The appt of Vinekatashum is intriguing as I wonder if it is Daniel looking to bridge his own gap in that regard?

Yeah, Levy got it wrong with Poch IMO and it is really not his fault in the sense of he is who he is. Perhaps his biggest 'crime' back then was allowing an uncharactaristic burst of emotions/self-preservation to kick in at the wrong moment?

 

[Lilbaz]

Not sure I agree, to me (and I think @billyiddo is saying the same thing)

- Any player we see worth >250K/week is likely on the radar of teams that offer more than we do (in addition to wages)
- Or we do a United/Villa play, and just overpay for mid level players, which creates a bunch of long term problems.

I know we are having a chicken and egg type conversation but I really trying to think of a player worth 250K-300K/week right now, that would come to us?

Maybe to put in perspective, I'd really like to see Mbeumo come to us, I don't think he's out of our league by any means, but rumour is he has asked United for 250K/week, I wouldn't be aligned to paying him more than Son/Bentancur/Romero/Deki. If we were to get Osimhen to come to us, sure ..

I said about mbeumo before we were linked that utd would be mad to give him £250k a week.
You build to that st a club or if you are a superstar that offsets the cost with merch sales and attracting fans.
Not for a good player from brentford that's on £40-50k a week.

 

[thfcsteff]

For me he has shown that he can take a team in the PL to way above it's resources - good for us because we have several richer teams we need to overcome to be successful in the league. He has good/great record v the best teams in the division - beating the best teams will be important if we want to win cup competitions as you will eventually face up against them.

I won't be holding him to deliveries in cup competitions as he doesn't have a great record outside the League Cup. Our best bet with him IMO is that hits a 'Poch-like' jet-stream and brings us to top 4.

 

[Raziel]

I won't be holding him to deliveries in cup competitions as he doesn't have a great record outside the League Cup. Our best bet with him IMO is that hits a 'Poch-like' jet-stream and brings us to top 4.

Stabilize team, keep us as regulars in Europe (EL min, CL bonus), in 2 years our debt will be down more, team should be even better (should be mostly quality additions from here), re-evaluate

Not what supporters want to hear, but makes sense.

 

[Baleforce]

Stabilize team, keep us as regulars in Europe (EL min, CL bonus), in 2 years our debt will be down more, team should be even better (should be mostly quality additions from here), re-evaluate

Not what supporters want to hear, but makes sense.

Mostly agree, but has to be CL, we need to re establish ourselves as a team that’s always in the CL.

That’s all that matters in the short term.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm sure you are, it's not your money and when the 250k a week 5 year contracts don't work out we get to complain about how we wasted money on players not up to snuff...

The point was that unless you're a top team the type of players that are worth the outlay of big wages aren't going to look at us as they will have other better options - the type of players that do look at you are the Casimeros of this world looking for pay day when past their best.

I'm just very fine advocating for new owners who will be willing to invest to a level that will make us title challengers. I am fine taking the risk that we might attract a Casemiro, if there is the potential for us to attract a De Bruyne.

Honestly I find this idea mad, we can’t attract the top players who would demand the top money until we are a top team? Or else we get the mercenaries?? I don’t buy it.

It’s perfectly likely that with new owners or a new strategy we say ‘hey, we’re trying to win the league now, and our wage structure is X’ and coming off of a 4th or 5th placed finish, we could perfectly likely attract a De Bruyne, a Salah, or maybe keep a Bale or a Modric for a little while longer.