Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[ledley's knee injections]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

This is what happens when we lose before an international break. Two weeks of arguing over "where it's going wrong" when if we had played three days later and tonked someone 4-0 people would be praising the team.

I think that we should wait til March/April and if the football is still of the same standard then we can come out and say it's all AVB's fault. IF we stop to think about it and consider how we have half a new team compared to last season and how most have had little or no pre season with one another, then we can explain some of the problems. As others have said, AVB did well last year with someone elses team and now he has his own players, but he won't have learnt enough about them in this short amount of time (considering some have been injured) to know how best to use them all. We didn't really get to see the best of Bale until March last year when he started playing in the middle.

Far too much sense for this thread dude... I agree with what you say.

I'll also agree with those who think at times we've played some pretty decent football this season. For 30 minutes against Saudi Sportswashing Machine we looked pretty good. In games against Swansea, Cardiff, Chelsea (first half), Norwich - spells or long spells of good stuff.

I think AVB is perhaps a tad cautious AND has made mistakes, but so much sustained criticism of a team which is still growing and is about 3/4 totally new is way OTT. To compare this side to Graham's team for example, is farcial.

AVB needs to pick his best 11, ASAP, and stick with it. Let the team grow together and get confident playing with eachother, and I'm confident we have more than enough very good players to quickly start looking like a swaggering Spurs team again.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Agree with Ledley, I said at the start of the season that by Christmas the players should start to show signs of cohesion and we should be flying (similar to last season), hopefully we'd still be in touch by then, which is looking that way. Like you say, if by march time we're still stumbling in attack then yea questions should be asked of AVB.

The comparisons to Graham's side are frankly laughable, I can only assume they didn't watch that side, unfortunately I did suffer it. This is **** all like the hoof it up field days!

 

[milo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Agree with Ledley, I said at the start of the season that by Christmas the players should start to show signs of cohesion and we should be flying (similar to last season), hopefully we'd still be in touch by then, which is looking that way. Like you say, if by march time we're still stumbling in attack then yea questions should be asked of AVB.

The comparisons to Graham's side are frankly laughable, I can only assume they didn't watch that side, unfortunately I did suffer it. This is **** all like the hoof it up field days!

I couldn't agree more

 

[Cochise]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I still don't know about Siggy being used on the flank though, he is best when arriving late into the box to finish moves as shown by his goals against Chelsea and Norwich but I think he is wasted out wide. He should be fighting Paulinho for his spot but then we will lose some defensive strength. Swings and round abouts

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Without a doubt some of that has been down to AVB's "system." But also down to the fact we have some brilliant individuals who get us out of the ****, Lloris, Sandro and Walker running back at break neck speed. Have you seen the number of times we have been cut open at will this season? Arsenal for example, despite us "dominating" looked like they would score with every attack. Saudi Sportswashing Machine how many times did they cut us open before they scored? I remember at least 1 brilliant last ditch tackle by Chiriches. Sheriff did the same and as for West Ham enough said and I said to my mate before that game our "luck" will eventually run out given the number of chances we concede. I do believe it is a combination of system and the fact we have a very expensive squad of very good players. How good would the "system" have been when we had the dross of the 90s?

Err…isn't that the point? A combination of a system and the right players to cover?

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Agree with Ledley, I said at the start of the season that by Christmas the players should start to show signs of cohesion and we should be flying (similar to last season), hopefully we'd still be in touch by then, which is looking that way. Like you say, if by march time we're still stumbling in attack then yea questions should be asked of AVB.

The comparisons to Graham's side are frankly laughable, I can only assume they didn't watch that side, unfortunately I did suffer it. This is **** all like the hoof it up field days!

[-o<
Thank you for saying that. I have actually not even been able to respond as it would've meant revisiting that era for too long...

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Without a doubt some of that has been down to AVB's "system." But also down to the fact we have some brilliant individuals who get us out of the ****, Lloris, Sandro and Walker running back at break neck speed. Have you seen the number of times we have been cut open at will this season? Arsenal for example, despite us "dominating" looked like they would score with every attack. Saudi Sportswashing Machine how many times did they cut us open before they scored? I remember at least 1 brilliant last ditch tackle by Chiriches. Sheriff did the same and as for West Ham enough said and I said to my mate before that game our "luck" will eventually run out given the number of chances we concede. I do believe it is a combination of system and the fact we have a very expensive squad of very good players. How good would the "system" have been when we had the dross of the 90s?

Many people in this thread try and take away credit from AVB by saying we are bailed out by our better players - whether it was Bale last year or Lloris etc. It seems very easy to hurl abuse and criticism at AVB and then when something positive about the team this year is put forward say that it's nothing to do with AVB.

I am frustrated with our season as well, but give credit where it's due. If any individual makes a key challenge to stop a goal being scored and they are trained and picked by AVB and his team they must have had an influence on that challenge.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

it will be very interesting to see the turn on this site when AVB actually starts encouraging the players to attack

having said that , there is little evidence at the mo that this will happen soon

AVB needed william, i see this now, he needs the top class players in most positions to make this ideal style work...cause quite frankly with a team of hardworking technical players with size and strength i can see us being a mare to play again...we bore the opponent to death then hit them with ferocious onslaught LOL

no but seriouisly , I think AVB needs a player like that

DE bruyne is looking to move, maybe a loan deal?

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Chelsea would never, ever, ever do business with us now after modric, Jose/AVB bad blood, London rivals, league place rivals! Just never gonna happen.

Think AVB's making us solid and then.... Unleash the hounds! That's what I'm hoping anyway! I don't think he's done a bad job in any shape or form so far, so no reason to think he can't sort out our attacking play.

 

[milo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

it will be very interesting to see the turn on this site when AVB actually starts encouraging the players to attack

having said that , there is little evidence at the mo that this will happen soon

AVB needed william, i see this now, he needs the top class players in most positions to make this ideal style work...cause quite frankly with a team of hardworking technical players with size and strength i can see us being a mare to play again...we bore the opponent to death then hit them with ferocious onslaught LOL

no but seriouisly , I think AVB needs a player like that

DE bruyne is looking to move, maybe a loan deal?

I think that there are a lot of assumptions here about what AVB does and wants.

Willian has hardly set the league on fire this season, I'm not convinced he would have made a significant difference to our season so far. Besides, Chelsea only signed him out of spite, I am sure that they have a policy of signing players to stop their rivals getting them, so they are hardly likely to reverse that and let us take one of them in January.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Chelsea would never, ever, ever do business with us now after modric, Jose/AVB bad blood, London rivals, league place rivals! Just never gonna happen.

Think AVB's making us solid and then.... Unleash the hounds! That's what I'm hoping anyway! I don't think he's done a bad job in any shape or form so far, so no reason to think he can't sort out our attacking play.

So where's the evidence that we're going to unleash the hounds?

Also, I don't actually think we're that solid. We dominate possession so much that we haven't conceded many, but every time the opposition do manage to put an attack together, we look all over the place, quite frankly.

West Ham was where it all came home to roost. But quite frankly despite the improved performance in the 2nd half, Saudi Sportswashing Machine should have been 3-0 up at half-time also. Hull also sliced us open 2 or 3 times.

I can't see us getting any points from our next two games, can anyone else?

 

[Baleforce]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

where is the evidence that we won't?

yes, I can see us getting points in both games

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

where is the evidence that we won't?

yes, I can see us getting points in both games

Well the evidence is that currently, we're pretty dull, with little creativity or incision and we struggle to score many goals. We've played that way for over a year, with little change, despite changes in personnel, formation and tactical tweaks along the way.

So really on the balance of probabilities, the status quo is more likely to be maintained and it is a leap of faith, to expect a change to a more fluid, attacking, incisive style of play, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, can anyone name me a team that started off solid/tough to beat, physical and dull then slowly (or quickly) morphed into a stylish attacking team?

I mean how common is it for teams to develop from one style to another? I'd say most managers just come in, impose "their style" and the team either fails to adapt or over time just gets "better at it", but the actual style doesn't change.

If anyone can give me examples, then please do!

 

[Baleforce]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

NWND, tottenham hotspur under Harold redknapp, few years back admittedly but spurs were a disgrace when mr redknapp took over, leaking goals all over the place, only had a couple of points from 7 games (or 9 maybe, can't remember) but thankfully mr redknapp steadied the ship and brought a battling (and running about a bit) quality to the spurs side who managed to grind out enough points to relax in the last months of the season, once mr redknapp had a transfer window behind him and managed to integrate his additions tottenham hotspur marched straight into the champions league where only an
inspired Madrid side stopped them winning it at the first attempt with the exciting rampaging swashbuckling double wide out threat of Bale and Lennon

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

NWND, tottenham hotspur under Harold redknapp, few years back admittedly but spurs were a disgrace when mr redknapp took over, leaking goals all over the place, only had a couple of points from 7 games (or 9 maybe, can't remember) but thankfully mr redknapp steadied the ship and brought a battling (and running about a bit) quality to the spurs side who managed to grind out enough points to relax in the last months of the season, once mr redknapp had a transfer window behind him and managed to integrate his additions tottenham hotspur marched straight into the champions league where only an
inspired Madrid side stopped them winning it at the first attempt with the exciting rampaging swashbuckling double wide out threat of Bale and Lennon

Oh, snap! Nicely put. Boom!!!!

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

So where's the evidence that we're going to unleash the hounds?

Also, I don't actually think we're that solid. We dominate possession so much that we haven't conceded many, but every time the opposition do manage to put an attack together, we look all over the place, quite frankly.

West Ham was where it all came home to roost. But quite frankly despite the improved performance in the 2nd half, Saudi Sportswashing Machine should have been 3-0 up at half-time also. Hull also sliced us open 2 or 3 times.

I can't see us getting any points from our next two games, can anyone else?

Where their first goal came after a shove on Jan and their second came after a Lloris save rebounded onto their player and went in without him even knowing it.

 

[IulianSteaua]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

NWND, tottenham hotspur under Harold redknapp, few years back admittedly but spurs were a disgrace when mr redknapp took over, leaking goals all over the place, only had a couple of points from 7 games (or 9 maybe, can't remember) but thankfully mr redknapp steadied the ship and brought a battling (and running about a bit) quality to the spurs side who managed to grind out enough points to relax in the last months of the season, once mr redknapp had a transfer window behind him and managed to integrate his additions tottenham hotspur marched straight into the champions league where only an
inspired Madrid side stopped them winning it at the first attempt with the exciting rampaging swashbuckling double wide out threat of Bale and Lennon

All true, but a little optimistic about winning it if Real wasn't there to stop us...

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think that there are a lot of assumptions here about what AVB does and wants.

Willian has hardly set the league on fire this season, I'm not convinced he would have made a significant difference to our season so far. Besides, Chelsea only signed him out of spite, I am sure that they have a policy of signing players to stop their rivals getting them, so they are hardly likely to reverse that and let us take one of them in January.

Again though, you have to feel sympathy for the man, even if he doesn't express it for himself (thankfully!!!)…he walked in the door and Modric went out (a player he wanted at Chelski even though Ancelotti has tabbed him before that), he did not get Moutinho (see Sweden game for latest evidence of what he could do for Soldado, etc), he saw Bale leave having thought he'd have him for this season and Willian was stolen from the medical. I think we can certainly conclude that the man is very aware of what we need, and desperately wants to make sure we get it.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I see quite a few posters arguing that AVB has had to suffer the loss of his stars and has had to bed new ones in twice in the last two years, so too much shouldn't be expected of him early on.

I agree.

But know this: if this is the inevitable reaction to us losing our stars, then it will happen every season. That is simply reality for a club of our size. If AVB's early stumbles end up costing us a CL spot, we will almost certainly see one of Verts, Lloris (likeliest, imo) or Sandro leaving in the summer to either our parent club or another side, which will lead to him needing to rebuild again (Especially in Lloris' case: for the life of me, I cannot think of one sweeper keeper who plays like he does and would be an option for us, necessitating another tactical change to adapt). This will spark another round of laboured results and unsatisfying performances while the team adjusts, which will in all probability cost us another CL spot (because the likes of Liverpool don't have to deal with this ****, judging by the way they told Suarez to shut up and stay put), which will lead to more stars leaving, cue endless repetition.

If we are to succeed we need to break that cycle. And if we are to break that cycle we need one of two things: a manager who can set a team up in a relatively quick amount of time to compensate for our inevitable transfers away every summer, or a system that survives the loss of even key personnel without significant adjustment.

I highly doubt AVB is the former: he seems a relatively regimented, rigid thinker who needs his system to be in place before he can gain enough confidence to let the team play. So that means we are dependent on him creating a system, i.e the latter.

Problem is, those systems take a lot of time to create (see Ferguson or Wenger for examples) and need just the right ingredients to truly explode into life, which also takes time. But AVB has said his ambition is to manage in Brazil and then sod off to the Dakar Rally in a decade, so will he be around long enough to implement his system? And even assuming he gives up on that Dakar ambition, what's to prevent him having one half-decent season with us (a la the nearly season last year) and then leaving for PSG (owner is his personal friend), Monaco, or any one of the many continental teams still enamoured by his reputation?

All questions, few good answers, imo. Levy was right to get rid of Redknapp: once the individual star quality of the side departed (Modric and VDV), we would never have been able to recreate the free-flowing football we managed to play throughout 2011, simply because Harry depended on his players to produce, and had no input to offer them when the going got tough beyond his famous 'run abaht a bit' quote. So it would very possibly have been a disaster if he was allowed to stay but given the intensely functional side we inherited once Modric and VDV left (both inevitable, for differing reasons), since he'd likely have done little better than AVB's doing now. But AVB was supposed to be our great young hope (for what it's worth, I think he still is), but the circumstances around him are darkening, and questions are arising about both the viability of his long-term system and his long-term commitment to the club necessary to implement that system. Will they be answered? I hope they will.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

NWND, tottenham hotspur under Harold redknapp, few years back admittedly but spurs were a disgrace when mr redknapp took over, leaking goals all over the place, only had a couple of points from 7 games (or 9 maybe, can't remember) but thankfully mr redknapp steadied the ship and brought a battling (and running about a bit) quality to the spurs side who managed to grind out enough points to relax in the last months of the season, once mr redknapp had a transfer window behind him and managed to integrate his additions tottenham hotspur marched straight into the champions league where only an
inspired Madrid side stopped them winning it at the first attempt with the exciting rampaging swashbuckling double wide out threat of Bale and Lennon

I obviously wasn't talking about a team who changed style under a new manager and got better at it I'm talking about a team changing style under the same manager, ie AVB made us tough to beat and solid LAST season but if anything the fluidity deteriorated and we created less chances towards the end of the season which has continued. I mean surely if there was a change in style it would be starting to happen.

Name a manager that has changed his own style or a team that played a full season under a style then changed and played a different style under the same manager another season?

It's AVB's style, this is it! If anything our fluidity and attacking instincts are reducing even further! He's replaced Dembele who played with a bit of flair at times and was always good for something off the cuff out of the blue e.g Norwich home last season and Lyon with an even more functional player in Paulinho, who you know exactly what he was going to do all the time!

So please enlighten me, why is AVB just going to throw how we play out the window and say 'you know what lads, f*** all this, let's go and play" and start attacking teams and letting players express themselves? Trying risky balls, taking a gamble etc? Where and when? What's he gonna do? I don't see it!