Park Lane James
Andy Sinton
They were attacked because they're English IMO, the Jewish thing may be a part of it though.
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10 spurs fans stabbed by masked gang
- Thread starter Howard Webb
- Start date
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
However, the whole "Jewish thing" and "nazi thing" are a much bigger deal in Europe. Over here we have relatively few Nazis, we have more of a right wing issue, which generally manifests itself with the whole BNP circus. Union jacks, skinheads, doc martins. But very much anti anything non-British, rather than just race. "Our racists" state their concern about protecting the British interests, "keeping these shores white". The far right in Europe is more like the KKK in the US, white supremacy is a genuine dream. Both a bunch of idiots, but different ideologies.
A lot of this still will have its roots in the Second World War. It was still only 70 years ago, so you will have grandparents on both sides who have influenced their beliefs with their children and even grandchildren. Very few people on our shores would have experienced or witnessed the persecution of the 1930s and 1940s.
(That's not to say our own British Jews have never experienced persecution, but if they have lived in the UK all their lives by and large they will have had a much more peaceful time than an Italian Jew, or Austrian Jew, or Dutch Jew.)
Lots of people think of Hitler as the original nazi, but Mussolini was dictator long before Hitler, while Hitler was in jail in fact. Then you have the whole Roman Empire...... 2000 years ago, but you still see pride in it in some people from Rome - literally, Romans. It's evident in Lazios badge, in their mascot. Maybe some of this is harmless.... But fascism runs deep in Italy, especially Rome.
We have a reputation as "Jewish club". I think it would be an interesting discussion to have, how fair is that definition? But regardless, we are known as a Jewish club, as are Ajax. In Europe, there are some clubs with a very strong nazi heritage - Inter, Madrid, Lazio probably the biggest - and so when we come to town it gives the hooligans a focus, regardless of what the truth is.
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Howard Webb
Clive Wilson
And of course Franco was a fascist dictator alive and well up to the 80s, took power in a coup and never let go. And Portugal was also fascist until the same sort of time.
While our own fascists here are a collection of farcical sideshows its a different matter in small sections of the EU closer to the Balkans
/context
While our own fascists here are a collection of farcical sideshows its a different matter in small sections of the EU closer to the Balkans
/context
Gordinho
Banned
It's an often forgotten fact that Arsenal are as "Jewish" as Spurs, just less is made of it.
Hashegotthesackyet?
Alan Hutton
West Ham were definately there, not specifically at the pub attack but faces were spotted before and after, with them getting slaps too. Them mugs aint as nawty as they think!
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Agreed, although I went to school in Barkingside and most of the Jewish lads were Spurs fans.
I would bet Manchester United have more Jewish fans than us too.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
I see Peter Herbert's at it again in The Observer. When is someone with a platform going to call him out on his agenda? It certainly isn't to kick racism out of football, because his assertion that David Baddiel discovered anti-semitism at some clubs is laughable at best and treacherous at worst. He has either been living under a rock until 2012 or he has an agenda. Note how he concludes that the links between anti-Semitic chanting in Rome and the attack is 'obvious'...he feels it's 'obvious' that the attack was motivated by anti-semitism. Now, without the facts at hand I won't commit to calling his assertion a load of gonad*s, but I WILL say it's very, very possible for two wrongs to take place in the same 24 hour period which are not necessarily related. Herbert obviously hasn't (and wouldn't) comment on the GREATER prejudice in the cowardly attack in Rome, which is anti-ENGLISH.
This man is dangerous. I cannot tell if he is totally naive with his agenda or willful, but either way, he is dangerous. He will go as quickly as he arrived and wreck any chances of anti-racism in football.
This man is dangerous. I cannot tell if he is totally naive with his agenda or willful, but either way, he is dangerous. He will go as quickly as he arrived and wreck any chances of anti-racism in football.
Howard Webb
Clive Wilson
I agree steff, but the anti racist argument is dire. It's been waiting for someone to step up and make a fuss, even if its some nutjob its certainly shone a light.. People all over are talking about this issue now, top to bottom. That has to be a good thing no?
By putting up one side of the debate, everyone else screams back. Positive
Ultimately the media will chew him up and spit him out like everyone else, but in the meantime we all have a discussion point which was missing badly before.
By putting up one side of the debate, everyone else screams back. Positive
Ultimately the media will chew him up and spit him out like everyone else, but in the meantime we all have a discussion point which was missing badly before.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Football has, in the last year, been taken from its comfort zone on racism and antisemitism to be forced to acknowledge that these evils have not been eradicated from the game in the UK and certainly not in continental Europe. The continuing catalogue of racial incidents from the Luis Suárez and John Terry affairs to the abuse suffered by an under-15 black team in Leicester a few weeks ago and the appalling events in Rome a few nights ago underline the seriousness of the situation.
The refusal of black players to wear the "Respect" T-Shirt came as no surprise to the PFA and FA, which knew for months about the complaints of black players and which they had repeatedly ignored. The Clattenberg incident once again illustrated the reaction of the football industry, which was happy to assert that such matters remain the preserve of football. The failure of the FA and clubs to monitor racial incidents according to the Macpherson definition, now some 14 years old, which defines a racial incident as one where the victim or any other person believes it is one, is a disgrace. It leads to dramatic under-reporting by fans and players alike.
The Society of Black Lawyers, in seeking to challenge racism in football, has been accused of being "naive", "publicity-seeking", "unhelpful" or out to "get work". Organisations or individuals who speak out on human rights are seldom welcomed by those whose inaction or collusion with racism is challenged.
The FA, PFA, Premier League and Football League must realise that hate crime is a humiliating and painful experience, whether the victim is a professional footballer or a teenager playing on a Saturday morning. Zero tolerance must mean just that. Racism and antisemitism in football are problems for everyone and those who think they can be no-go areas for the law are sadly mistaken. One of the consequences of such complacency is that football grounds, with some notable exceptions, continue to be a largely white affair. SBL is aware that several London clubs have a history of antisemitic abuse exposed by Jewish comedian David Baddiel. The notion that Tottenham fans, less than 5% of whom are likely to be Jewish, can reclaim a word of genocide, slaughter and humiliation is an insult to anyone's intelligence.
The link between the appalling incidents in Rome and the "Y" word chanting is obvious. The chanting of the word simply legitimises antisemitic abuse by other fans. There is no irony in that, just insensitivity and ignorance of the worst kind, The dreadful attack on Spurs fans in Rome and the chanting of the "Juden Tottenham" by Lazio fans was condemned by the president of the Italian Soccer Association, Giancarlo Abete, as an "unspeakable attack that damages the image of our football".
Those words are mere rhetoric unless the response of Uefa and other bodies to such systematic abuse is to halt the match, identify the perpetrators and, if it continues, to abandon the match and award the game to the opposing team. Nothing less than a serious deterrent effect will stop clubs and fans allowing the agenda to be set by a small group of racists.
The refusal of black players to wear the "Respect" T-Shirt came as no surprise to the PFA and FA, which knew for months about the complaints of black players and which they had repeatedly ignored. The Clattenberg incident once again illustrated the reaction of the football industry, which was happy to assert that such matters remain the preserve of football. The failure of the FA and clubs to monitor racial incidents according to the Macpherson definition, now some 14 years old, which defines a racial incident as one where the victim or any other person believes it is one, is a disgrace. It leads to dramatic under-reporting by fans and players alike.
The Society of Black Lawyers, in seeking to challenge racism in football, has been accused of being "naive", "publicity-seeking", "unhelpful" or out to "get work". Organisations or individuals who speak out on human rights are seldom welcomed by those whose inaction or collusion with racism is challenged.
The FA, PFA, Premier League and Football League must realise that hate crime is a humiliating and painful experience, whether the victim is a professional footballer or a teenager playing on a Saturday morning. Zero tolerance must mean just that. Racism and antisemitism in football are problems for everyone and those who think they can be no-go areas for the law are sadly mistaken. One of the consequences of such complacency is that football grounds, with some notable exceptions, continue to be a largely white affair. SBL is aware that several London clubs have a history of antisemitic abuse exposed by Jewish comedian David Baddiel. The notion that Tottenham fans, less than 5% of whom are likely to be Jewish, can reclaim a word of genocide, slaughter and humiliation is an insult to anyone's intelligence.
The link between the appalling incidents in Rome and the "Y" word chanting is obvious. The chanting of the word simply legitimises antisemitic abuse by other fans. There is no irony in that, just insensitivity and ignorance of the worst kind, The dreadful attack on Spurs fans in Rome and the chanting of the "Juden Tottenham" by Lazio fans was condemned by the president of the Italian Soccer Association, Giancarlo Abete, as an "unspeakable attack that damages the image of our football".
Those words are mere rhetoric unless the response of Uefa and other bodies to such systematic abuse is to halt the match, identify the perpetrators and, if it continues, to abandon the match and award the game to the opposing team. Nothing less than a serious deterrent effect will stop clubs and fans allowing the agenda to be set by a small group of racists.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Its like saying if you wear a short skirt you should be expected to be raped
Not just expect, but condone.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
The shocking thing is, its the media whipping up racial problems out of nothing. Bar one or two instances at a handful games - a clutch of hissing fans from one (possibly two) clubs - has there been any serious racial issue relating to Spurs over the last 15-20 years?
But with journalists needing to write articles and putting the emphasis on a word that had been more aligned with the club than race, they are creating racial problems. I doubt racial stereotyping by Lazio thugs would have occurred were it not for the recent media and pressure group flimflam. Yiddo has been a word that is not racial, at least until recent media attention made a meal out of its roots. It had a heritage but its used to refer to Spurs players and fans who are not Jewish. fudging media.
These commentators are pushing their own agenda - selling articles or seeking attention - to the detriment of the club. When people get stabbed because Bediel or others whip up a storm over the etymology of a word that has evolved, they should be ashamed. They should look carefully at themselves for inciting racial problems, rather than blame others.
But with journalists needing to write articles and putting the emphasis on a word that had been more aligned with the club than race, they are creating racial problems. I doubt racial stereotyping by Lazio thugs would have occurred were it not for the recent media and pressure group flimflam. Yiddo has been a word that is not racial, at least until recent media attention made a meal out of its roots. It had a heritage but its used to refer to Spurs players and fans who are not Jewish. fudging media.
These commentators are pushing their own agenda - selling articles or seeking attention - to the detriment of the club. When people get stabbed because Bediel or others whip up a storm over the etymology of a word that has evolved, they should be ashamed. They should look carefully at themselves for inciting racial problems, rather than blame others.
Park Lane James
Andy Sinton
Sloppy Sam's? That's where me and my mates were.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I don't agree with the bit in bold. I doubt coverage in the British media has that much impact on Italian thugs.