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*** Tottenham Hotspur Vs Forest *** OMT

We have several discernible holes in the squad. We've all said that.
You keep banging on about a 'passing 8'. What evidence do you see that this manager would want one? Today we once again saw a lack of simple structures all over the pitch. There appears to be little structural pattern work on how to attack. I love using the middle of the pitch more, but that requires triggers and progressions, players moving into certain areas and the like. None of it. The first mistake comes because a 19 year old comes 30 yards to try and take responsibility when no-one else is; our experienced keeper just hands it off even though he sees everything. We have coaching and managerial issues, and lets see what happens once Wells leaves...
I don't care whether he wants one, I WANT one! 🤣

Just like with Ange I wanted one then and he foolishly decided he didn't need one or a 6. Whether the manager thinks we need a passing 8 or not the football we are trying to play REQUIRES one. Period.

Now Frank might be a madman and might try and play this way and without a passing 8. This will fail and he will be sacked. Simple.
 
Have we even tested the keeper today bar the Gray shot?
Don't know whether anybody's mentioned or noticed, but in the first half when they were "defending" (I use the term loosely) the end in front of us, there was pigeon who must've spent 75% of the half just wandering around their penalty area pecking at the grass/grass seeds. Totally un-bothered!
 
Don't know whether anybody's mentioned or noticed, but in the first half when they were "defending" (I use the term loosely) the end in front of us, there was pigeon who must've spent 75% of the half just wandering around their penalty area pecking at the grass/grass seeds. Totally un-bothered!
Pru Pru!
 
Don't know whether anybody's mentioned or noticed, but in the first half when they were "defending" (I use the term loosely) the end in front of us, there was pigeon who must've spent 75% of the half just wandering around their penalty area pecking at the grass/grass seeds. Totally un-bothered!
That’s a fudging winner
Unless of course you mean Richarlison
 
If your truth is that we are a Top 10ish side then brother we see the same truth. 👊🏿
Right now we’re on track for 17th based on our attacking stats and last bases in errors leading to goals
Maybe we are a 17th level side and squad
I don’t think we are but our manager maybe does.
 
If I had to place a bet on where we'll finish, at this point I'd probably say 14th. Finally getting the likes of Kuluševski and Maddison back might lift us a few places higher (I don't honestly see Solanke having a major impact on things) and .there's always the hope we might bring one or two in in January that aren't just more sack-the-manager fodder, but right now, I'm thinking around about 14th. There's plenty more horror shows like today's in this lot, if you ask me.
 
Don't know whether anybody's mentioned or noticed, but in the first half when they were "defending" (I use the term loosely) the end in front of us, there was pigeon who must've spent 75% of the half just wandering around their penalty area pecking at the grass/grass seeds. Totally un-bothered!
Haha. Yes. I was quite fascinated by that pigeon. Spent more time watching him (her) than what was (wasn’t) happening football wise.
 
If I had to place a bet on where we'll finish, at this point I'd probably say 14th. Finally getting the likes of Kuluševski and Maddison back might lift us a few places higher (I don't honestly see Solanke having a major impact on things) and .there's always the hope we might bring one or two in in January that aren't just more sack-the-manager fodder, but right now, I'm thinking around about 14th. There's plenty more horror shows like today's in this lot, if you ask me.

CFT and the Trust will be happy, they will have their Tottenham back
 
Yep
Seems obvious but then Richy has been scoring and this ain’t a team with many scorers in it

Just saw this though

Tottenham have picked up just 22 points across their opening 16 Premier League games this season, their fewest since 2008-09.

That scary because ain’t that the season of 2 pts from 8 games …

We picked up 14 points from the closing 16 PL games of last season, so guess that we should be thankful for a 50% improvement in results!

Won 4 Drew 2 Lost 10 For 19 Against 30 Pts 14
 
Is that an improvement on the start?
I guess that’s what the money was spent on

We picked up 23 points from the first 16 games of last season.

At least we had Maddison + Kulusevski + Solanke available back then plus Udogie at LB and Son on LW so the team was balanced.

Don’t know how many more transfer windows it’ll take until this painful rebuild even looks close to being complete.
 
We picked up 23 points from the first 16 games of last season.

At least we had Maddison + Kulusevski + Solanke available back then plus Udogie at LB and Son on LW so the team was balanced.

Don’t know how many more transfer windows it’ll take until this painful rebuild even looks close to being complete.
We were playing with no first choice defenders again though weren’t we and it’s a Good job we didn’t buy some players this summer
You can’t ever complete a rebuild when you change managers with such contrasting styles
Forest saw that when they got in Ange.,,, brought in a more pragmatic coach and they will finish top half
West Ham have done that with Nuno
We have gone from a guy who wanted to play constant attacking football to a guy who doesn’t want to play tha5 and it means, for him to be successful, we would likely need 6/7 players more
Poor planning but also poor judgement from Vinai
 
The biggest problem at our club is the player recruitment policy. We constantly spend money on youngsters who may come good, but in the last 10 years how many have actually made it? Then we spend big money on "established" Prem players who we seem to massively overpay for. EG Richarlison and Solanke and Kudus to name just 3. Then we constantly take players from "big" european teams who if they were actually better than average they wouldn`t be letting them go. I`m talking the likes of Lucas Moura who gets a pass for his hat trick in the CL semi and more recently Pahlinha and Tel. The list is pretty endless. If they get a decent player the likes of PSG , Bayern , and Real Madrid won`t be selling them to us for £40 mil.
Supposedly we have the financial might to compete at the top but in the last few years I really think our recruitment has been pants. The worst year must have been when we bought the likes of Ndombele Lo Celso Sessengon Bergwin etc. For whatever reason we never seem to get the balance just right. When we do get a good player they leave for a club where they are likely to win something I`m talking Bale Modric and Kane. Imagine if we had used them as a foundation to build a team around. Kane only stayed as long as he did because Levy promised the earth and never delivered it.
We have had some of the best managers in europe over the last few years and ironically the one who actually won us a trophy was in my opinion one of the worst we have had recently.
The trouble is that the squad we had under Poch really should have won the league or at least a trophy but our luck didn`t run for us. I really don`t think any of our current squad would have got into that team and there is the problem, we have never built properly from the squad that reached the CL final and finished 2nd in the league
 
Well that was fun...

I see there are some who claim there were green shoots to behold on todays game. That is putting it to a stretch, and what's more, if there were any more than one single green shoot, it would jump above our "shots on goal"-tally on the statistic.

My word, that was an abyssmal performance!

Now, I get the "rebuild, settle, and missing players"-arguments. I'm fine with Thomas learning on the job, if indeed he is actually learning.
What I'm not fine with, is the lack of clarity, direction and plan. If we learned anything from the Ange-debaucle, it is that it is very possible indeed to get your plan, your idea and your direction across even if you have half your squad on the sick list. It didn't work, but no-one could doubt what our plan was, or how we were going to implement it.

What we have right now is a situation I dreaded more than a second coming of He Who Must Not Be Named. A situation where we just as well could have had a second coming of He Who Must Not Be Named. His whole style of football, his whole plan, was to be thight, compact, hit on counters with players largely at their own accord to build attacking moves. He created the foundation, and expected the creativity to come from the players.
But then atleast he created the foundation, and held up his side of the bargain! We were rather difficult to break down, we did defend rather well for long periods of time. And we were as interesting as the life and reproduction cycle of amoebas are to the general public.

This version with Thomas Frank? We're not hard to break down, we're not press resistant (to the contrary) and we're certainly not more interesting than the life and reproduction cycle of amoebas. We have no apparent attack plan beyond getting the ball wide, and cross. There seems to be no base play, no patterns or even any of Contes automations (thank ghod, though.)

And for all those who were screaming for a plan B, a plan C, from Ange last year... in the words of Delia Smith: "Where are you? Let's be having you!" Surely you are out there shouting your heads off from the rooftops for even a concept of a plan A this time?

At a point late in the second half I was yelling at the telly to get the players to start aiming their tackling at the players legs. Not because I wanted them to hurt anyone! But because we were so off pace that by aiming at the ball-carriers legs we might accidently end up tackling the person receiving the pass instead. Why are we constantly being outrun, outfought and outmuscled regardless of who we play? What on earth are we doing on the field and in the gym? We certainly aren't working our socks off on defensive organisation or attacking patterns, that much is clear.
(yeah, yeah, midweek-games, restitution, yadiyadiyadi)

I'm not calling for anyones head. Not me. Not yet. But someone will. And they will be baying for blood louder than ever since they've been successful twice in a year already, first with Ange, then with Levy. They've tasted it now, the blood.

Something has got to change. Fast! We've got Liverpool, Palace and Brentford next in the league. By this rate, we will start next year in the bracket of 14-17 place, on a steep downward spiral, with a bottomless pit below us. We might even drop deep enough for the filthy hammers to get within striking distance where they think they can relegate us. Imagine the boost they would get from that thought...
Do not think this team can't go down!
We are definately poor enough to be in the thick of a relegation battle come March. It all depends on our January buying and selling. The only players to come back that will help us is Kulu and maybe Solanke .
 
We were playing with no first choice defenders again though weren’t we and it’s a Good job we didn’t buy some players this summer
You can’t ever complete a rebuild when you change managers with such contrasting styles
Forest saw that when they got in Ange.,,, brought in a more pragmatic coach and they will finish top half
West Ham have done that with Nuno
We have gone from a guy who wanted to play constant attacking football to a guy who doesn’t want to play tha5 and it means, for him to be successful, we would likely need 6/7 players more
Poor planning but also poor judgement from Vinai

Romero started 12 of those games
MvdV started 9 of them
Udogie and Porro started all of them

Undoubtedly woeful planning by Vinai to switch to a manager with such contrasting styles, like you say. Well unless we had pulled out all the stops and signed an entirely new squad in the summer, like what Chavski do.

Beginning to look like we might as well have persisted with Postecoglou and if the PL form continued to be bad at least Glasner might’ve fallen out with Palace hierarchy and been a better fit as successor.
 
The biggest problem at our club is the player recruitment policy. We constantly spend money on youngsters who may come good, but in the last 10 years how many have actually made it? Then we spend big money on "established" Prem players who we seem to massively overpay for. EG Richarlison and Solanke and Kudus to name just 3. Then we constantly take players from "big" european teams who if they were actually better than average they wouldn`t be letting them go. I`m talking the likes of Lucas Moura who gets a pass for his hat trick in the CL semi and more recently Pahlinha and Tel. The list is pretty endless. If they get a decent player the likes of PSG , Bayern , and Real Madrid won`t be selling them to us for £40 mil.
Supposedly we have the financial might to compete at the top but in the last few years I really think our recruitment has been pants. The worst year must have been when we bought the likes of Ndombele Lo Celso Sessengon Bergwin etc. For whatever reason we never seem to get the balance just right. When we do get a good player they leave for a club where they are likely to win something I`m talking Bale Modric and Kane. Imagine if we had used them as a foundation to build a team around. Kane only stayed as long as he did because Levy promised the earth and never delivered it.
We have had some of the best managers in europe over the last few years and ironically the one who actually won us a trophy was in my opinion one of the worst we have had recently.
The trouble is that the squad we had under Poch really should have won the league or at least a trophy but our luck didn`t run for us. I really don`t think any of our current squad would have got into that team and there is the problem, we have never built properly from the squad that reached the CL final and finished 2nd in the league
Spot on IMO.

Year on year we've declined since the height of Poch era. And unfortunately I think recruitment is the core issue. We have had way more misses than hits in those 5+ years.

Right now, the phenomenal output in G/A of Kane/Son has just not been replaced *or even close*. We have dropped a fair amount on 40/50 mil range players who for one reason or the other just haven't cut it or it hasn’t worked / isn’t working.


Johnson scores goals but literally only when the system is designed around his 2 good attributes – he offers nothing when the system isn’t set up that way. Richy has 1 in good game in 4, when he isn't injured. Solanke had about 5 injured games in 7 years or whatever but comes to Spurs and has been injured tons. For Leicester Maddison was always injury-prone and inconsistent while occasionally showing unbelievable ability - nothing has changed since he’s come to Spurs.

Occasional hit in there. Kulu overall been a great signing, but currently and typically out long term injured. VDV should go on to be a great player for us (until we sell him). Romero, overall a good signing as top level CB at his best, but I’m unsure if he should be part of our leadership group like he is (we don’t have many options)

Bentancur pre ACL was a brilliant player for Spurs – post ACL unfortunately he mainly looks a shadow of that player and it is in a critical area of the pitch.

Gray/Bergvall brilliant talents but are kids ffs. Odobert is a promising talent but looks nowhere ready to be a PL starter / replacement for Son.

Xavi and Kudos are great talents. I think they can prove big players for us in future – but both come with issues. Same goes with Pahilinha – a top destroyer but so limited on the ball it hurts.

We haven’t got the core of leaders or top system players for these flawed pieces to build a good team around. Frank is picking up these pieces. He also has to deal with our historic lily-livered weak as f**king brick mentality and consistency across European games to league. Year on year, manager after manager, it’s the same.

Guess to add to this – managerial merry-go-round, and a tactical merry-go-round. From Poch to Mourinho/Conte via Nuno, onto to Ange and now with TF.

I think this along with recruitment are our two core issues and explain why we are where are right now.
 
The biggest problem at our club is the player recruitment policy. We constantly spend money on youngsters who may come good, but in the last 10 years how many have actually made it? Then we spend big money on "established" Prem players who we seem to massively overpay for. EG Richarlison and Solanke and Kudus to name just 3. Then we constantly take players from "big" european teams who if they were actually better than average they wouldn`t be letting them go. I`m talking the likes of Lucas Moura who gets a pass for his hat trick in the CL semi and more recently Pahlinha and Tel. The list is pretty endless. If they get a decent player the likes of PSG , Bayern , and Real Madrid won`t be selling them to us for £40 mil.
Supposedly we have the financial might to compete at the top but in the last few years I really think our recruitment has been pants. The worst year must have been when we bought the likes of Ndombele Lo Celso Sessengon Bergwin etc. For whatever reason we never seem to get the balance just right. When we do get a good player they leave for a club where they are likely to win something I`m talking Bale Modric and Kane. Imagine if we had used them as a foundation to build a team around. Kane only stayed as long as he did because Levy promised the earth and never delivered it.
We have had some of the best managers in europe over the last few years and ironically the one who actually won us a trophy was in my opinion one of the worst we have had recently.
The trouble is that the squad we had under Poch really should have won the league or at least a trophy but our luck didn`t run for us. I really don`t think any of our current squad would have got into that team and there is the problem, we have never built properly from the squad that reached the CL final and finished 2nd in the league
We need to build a foundation in the starting XI, and then sign young players for the bench to compete for those starting places, and keep that cycle going.
 
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