Why is this still in spurs news & not general football he is gone & has nothing to do with the club
So it stays in spurs news forever. What about the people that don't want to see it everytime they check out spurs news.Because the discussion is heavily centered around Spurs.
So it stays in spurs news forever. What about the people that don't want to see it everytime they check out spurs news.
We have 2 seasons worth of football to use to form an opinion on that - I'm comfortable that that amount of football gives me enough grounds to form a solid opinion on the matter and that is that it didn't work and it wasn't going to get better. I think upper mid table would have been our level under him.
To preempt a response that 5th in his first season says otherwise I would counter that by highlighting that our form/ppg post opening ten games would have had us a fair bit lower and that over the two seasons we have seen a steady downward curve in that metric, we never showed since those opening games any hint that we could get back to that level of consistent performance, that's over 1.75 seasons of football - which is more than than the average PL manager gets.
The root of my opinion is that I do not have any confidence/faith in his tactical approach to the game and that the PL (and CL) has too many good managers/teams/players that will expose the inherent flaws in his setup, we saw this pretty much weekly over a lomg period of time. It's an unforgiving league with a high level of quality throughout (relegated teams of late notwithstanding) and you need more than bravery to make it work. Plenty of 'good' managers have not cut the mustard here (PL) and have still had good careers away from the league - no reason Ange couldn't do the same.
& Who decides thatIt'll get moved when the time is right.
You can always try not opening the thread![]()
Not sure I'll ever fully understand. I could absolutely see why Ange played on the hope and imagination layers. I could perhaps see why he may not have satisfied the quantitative data side as a contra to that though. I can imagine Lange and the analysts could pick to pieces some of the things that happened on the field. There were very few favourable stats in the bigger picture. Then you have the qualitative layer. The Spurs leadership knew the man personally. We didn't, but he seems to have done a great job of dividing his own Spurs fanbase. Perhaps he did the same internally with the leadership team.
In companies you need advocates at the senior level. He must have lost his advocacy bit by bit I guess. If you're saying he was hosed by February that's interesting as we didn't really have a semblance of a loaded squad again until about mid Feb in the Utd fixture. To be fair, you always said that.
Okay. You've clearly missed the tongue-in-cheek nature of my post. Steff said he was tired of seeing threads about ENIC and Thomas Frank getting derailed with Ange talk, so I thought I'd better post about ENIC and Frank in his Ange thread.So apart from Spurs Ange managed a club in Japan and the only team in Scotland. Perhaps you would rather carry on losing game after game after game, then watch him embarrass himself and the club when being interviewed by the press. He was an incompetent idiot who manged us to beat Frankfurt and a poor Utd side so we could lift a trophy
We have 2 seasons worth of football to use to form an opinion on that - I'm comfortable that that amount of football gives me enough grounds to form a solid opinion on the matter and that is that it didn't work and it wasn't going to get better. I think upper mid table would have been our level under him.
To preempt a response that 5th in his first season says otherwise I would counter that by highlighting that our form/ppg post opening ten games would have had us a fair bit lower and that over the two seasons we have seen a steady downward curve in that metric, we never showed since those opening games any hint that we could get back to that level of consistent performance, that's over 1.75 seasons of football - which is more than than the average PL manager gets.
The root of my opinion is that I do not have any confidence/faith in his tactical approach to the game and that the PL (and CL) has too many good managers/teams/players that will expose the inherent flaws in his setup, we saw this pretty much weekly over a lomg period of time. It's an unforgiving league with a high level of quality throughout (relegated teams of late notwithstanding) and you need more than bravery to make it work. Plenty of 'good' managers have not cut the mustard here (PL) and have still had good careers away from the league - no reason Ange couldn't do the same.
People far more in the know than me or you felt our league form wasn't an anomaly. And despite the 5th place finish in his first season they identified a down ward trend in form and an inability to compete on multiple fronts, unlike other trophy winners last season. They had a lot to lose from his sacking in terms of criticism. Yet despite that they still thought the underlying data did not support keeping him.
And then there are the leaks in the press about his poor handling of injuries which made the situation worse. There is circumstantial evidence to back these up in the form of the immediate and reckless return from injury of VDV and Romero against Chelsea. Returns which led to them both breaking down and further lengthy periods of absence. And his own colleagues observations around injuries affecting his squads elsewhere.
Yep, as fans we only get exposed to so much. We see what happens on the pitch and we see what happens in the pressers. I'm not saying we should speculate about the other layers but we should do so knowing that there is an employer / employee relationship and if we think we have quant and qual data, I can't imagine what access they have inside the club. Those Spurs leaders acted with both types and seem to come to a unanimous decision. Of course, even that in itself doesn't make all the Ange Out phalanx right and the Ange In wrong. Even the THFC leadership could have made a bad call. I don't think they have though. I said way back that I would be proud of my club if they made winning the EL the equivalent of table stakes for a club of our size, and sought something even bigger in the next phase. That is a winning mentality.
It also doesn't deride Ange in any way. He got that trophy along with the rest of the football club. It's been 3 or 4 years in the building and there's been contributors everywhere including his own. Even poor old Scott Munn became our first Chief Football Officer and won a trophy on his watch. I don't see people up in arms about why he has got the boot (if he has). Again the employer / employee engagement model can only reveal why he wasn't the right fit for the next chapter.
As is every manager, at every club, ever.Because he was far, far in the background. Ange was front, centre and solo.
I know you’re trying to be fair and balanced with your last line but I just find it so utterly patronising - not to me but to the man we’re discussing. This is the exact sort of thing he’s had to deal with his entire career, people doubting him. The man who got us 5th in his first season and then a first European trophy in 41 years after dealing with a historic injury crisis gets a pat on the head and told that he might be perfectly good manager, just not in our league.
It's more of an attempt to show that despite maybe throwing some ott negative adjectives around at certain low points I do not think the man is an outright bad manager - the PL is, imv, the most competitive level of club football in the world, there's no shame in not making it at this level.
The J League appears to be the highest ranked league Ange has managed in pre PL, no.23 according to Google - there's a lot of ground between no. 23 and no. 1 that someone could find their ceiling at, tactics working lower down the ladder aren't necessarily going to work at the top of it (naive imv to think they would) - simply put i do not think you can succeed at this level when being so consistently open defensively, the risk balance is WAY off and when you're in a place where you are being routinely punished is it actually bravery to continue on?
Did Ange succeed at Spurs?It's more of an attempt to show that despite maybe throwing some ott negative adjectives around at certain low points I do not think the man is an outright bad manager - the PL is, imv, the most competitive level of club football in the world, there's no shame in not making it at this level.
The J League appears to be the highest ranked league Ange has managed in pre PL, no.23 according to Google - there's a lot of ground between no. 23 and no. 1 that someone could find their ceiling at, tactics working lower down the ladder aren't necessarily going to work at the top of it (naive imv to think they would) - simply put i do not think you can succeed at this level when being so consistently open defensively, the risk balance is WAY off and when you're in a place where you are being routinely punished is it actually bravery to continue on?
Did Ange succeed at Spurs?
I just think that the ‘tactics not working in this league’ argument doesn’t make any sense. Under Ange, at various points, we won really important games home and away against big teams, and we lost games to inferior teams. If it was tactics, we’d routinely get punished by almost everyone.
What actually happened was that we played most of the season without our first choice defence, and had a specific 3 month period playing every 3 games with almost only 11 players.
And again, we finished 5th in the first season! We can never know for sure, but I would be willing to think that with normalised injuries and a deeper squad, we’d start winning more than we’d lose and be challenging where we should be in the league.