OMT SPURS v burnley

[SpurMeUp]

What is frustrating is that we should have got more from the chavski game - at least a point - and today was one of those games you can play badly and win if you just defend ok. But our defending wasn't there. The press and high line were shot completely.

 

[ringo]

I agree. Sanchez is part of the solution - pace to allow us to press more aggressively, because we can always recover the space in behind even if the press does fail.

But the full-backs are absolutely key in this system - far more than the CBs. Their pace is what allows *all* of it to function - without that pace, they simply cannot be part of the press, because they risk leaving massive gaps in behind if they get caught out, and also need to position themselves in space so that they can be a threat if someone else pressing manages to win the ball. With a fast player, you can expect them to press and be a threat as well, because their pace allows them to make up for any lost ground in the event of a lost challenge, and also allows them to threaten the opposition even from deeper positions (because they can outpace their opponents with the ball if they get it).

Trippier has the speed of a baleen whale on ketamine. And the defending instincts of a traffic cone. So he has to position himself way out on the touchline, in acres of space, just to be a threat - or he has to tuck in and stay back, just to avoid being caught out on the break. And that slows *everything* down. Ditto Davies on the other side, although at least he's a good defender.

When we try to play our pressing game with Trippier and Davies as our full-backs, it is essentially a deeply flawed system. We might get away with it, but more often than not, we won't. Fast full backs are key to the pressing game - and we badly need some.

I agree and I think the effect of that lack of FB pace is even more exposed at Wembley. Poch needs to sit down with his team -if he hasn't already -and think up a few alternative approaches, as we might need them if we continue in a similar manner.

 

[the dza]

There is possibly a sense of entitlement now - among fans and the team - "we could win the league." The team need to knuckle down and fight for each win. The fans just got a reality check.

I still think we'll fight for the title. Remember early last season, Chelsea won their first 3 games, then drew one and lost the next two. At that point, Conte found his best team and they won 13 on the bounce. When we get into our stride, we are capable of that, we showed it winning all those games towards the end of last season. Let's just hope it happens soon.

 

[milo]

Poch has got a difficult problem to solve. Pressing is his main strategy. We know from the players that he has encouraged to play with a high line and press relentlessly.
This strategy worked well with the players we had at WHL - but even then, at times towards the end of games, or against very quick teams, looked a bit suspect.
Now we are trying to do the same on a much bigger pitch and I don't think it is feasible. Not for 90 minutes. Or at least without more pace in defence - Sanchez might be part of that solution.

Poorer teams will just shut up shop, crowd the middle, and try to hit us on the break. And the evidence suggests that tactic may work.
Better teams will do the same but more effectively. Liverpool will rip us to shreds if they play like they did today - they have so much pace on the break.

Poch could probably solve this if he had time and the players -it wouldn't be easy as we are set up and coached over several seasons for the all out press. But he doesn't really have the time as we are changing stadium again in a season. We may just have to tough it out best we can while we are at Wembley and hope we don't lose too many players if we finish outside top 5/6.

I don't agree. We haven't noticeably changed tactics between home and away games in the past and most away games will be on larger pitches.

The high line is about compressing play, so we should definitely continue with that in a larger pitch.

It should also be harder for poorer teams to shut up shop on a larger pitch. That should play in out favour.

Our pressing game evolved last season. We were a little more measured and again that should work better on a larger pitch.

We see the same every season. We start slowly and people start writing off our chances. Poch has been great at timing our form and fitness for the second half of the season, when it counts. I am sure that we will see the same again this year.

 

[We are Tottenham]

I agree. Sanchez is part of the solution - pace to allow us to press more aggressively, because we can always recover the space in behind even if the press does fail.

But the full-backs are absolutely key in this system - far more than the CBs. Their pace is what allows *all* of it to function - without that pace, they simply cannot be part of the press, because they risk leaving massive gaps in behind if they get caught out, and also need to position themselves in space so that they can be a threat if someone else pressing manages to win the ball. With a fast player, you can expect them to press and be a threat as well, because their pace allows them to make up for any lost ground in the event of a lost challenge, and also allows them to threaten the opposition even from deeper positions (because they can outpace their opponents with the ball if they get it).

Trippier has the speed of a baleen whale on ketamine. And the defending instincts of a traffic cone. So he has to position himself way out on the touchline, in acres of space, just to be a threat - or he has to tuck in and stay back, just to avoid being caught out on the break. And that slows *everything* down. Ditto Davies on the other side, although at least he's a good defender.

When we try to play our pressing game with Trippier and Davies as our full-backs, it is essentially a deeply flawed system. We might get away with it, but more often than not, we won't. Fast full backs are key to the pressing game - and we badly need some.

Wembleys a much longer pitch..plenty of room to attack and if your backs are slow the opposition will get behind. I don,t know if that's that's what happened today. Vertongen can be slow of the mark Trippier/Davies?
Maybe we could play an old fashioned sweeper system with Vertongen doing the mopping up....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not sure the type of goal matters too much, it is more that the way play is progressing at Wembley, especially towards the end of games, is worrying. The press appears to ease off considerably towards the end of 90 and we have looked much more vulnerable to counter attack as space opens up on what is a big pitch.

Plus at the same time we don't really have a tricky dribbler or the wide pace to break down teams that sit deep and pack out the defence. Sure in some games we will take our chances/get more than one early goal, but we need to have a strategy to counter the way most teams are likely to play against us this season.

We have the best defence on the league so should not be conceding a goal that is avoidable IMO

That goal was brick andnthys only moderately acceptable when under massive pressure which we weren't

Awful

 

[lovely rita]

The Wembley curse? The August curse? The debut striker curse?
Bring in the sports psychology team, rather. Bottlers.

The August curse is not an accident. Unfortunately it is. a Levy thing and happens and will happen every year.

Don't have our signings in place. Usually start off light and underwhelmed . Cost us points every season.

Nothing changes.

 

[Baleforce]

I still think we'll fight for the title. Remember early last season, Chelsea won their first 3 games, then drew one and lost the next two. At that point, Conte found his best team and they won 13 on the bounce. When we get into our stride, we are capable of that, we showed it winning all those games towards the end of last season. Let's just hope it happens soon.

I don't think so, United are too far away already, the good news is that arse are brick again, I reckon we'll be comfortably fourth with a 15 point cushion either way.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Wake up call today.

Most upsetting was the lack of structure/shape defending at the end and it lost us 2 points. Subs not knowing their role? / too tired to press/ no plan B to sit back in a compact formation when we need it? / No real attacking options on the bench?

Lastly, do we have enough in midfield? With Wanyama out we lack options. Would like us to sign someone who can play CM.

 

[AdamB]

The August curse is not an accident. Unfortunately it is. a Levy thing and happens and will happen every year.

Don't have our signings in place. Usually start off light and underwhelmed . Cost us points every season.

Nothing changes.

Our starting 11 today is effectively the same one which got us 2nd place last year. No signings to bed in, no summer tournaments to delay pre-season.....its hard to blame Levy on August performances/results this year. Lack of signings for pre-season shouldnt have cost us points this year. And I actually dont thikn the first two performances were awful either

 

[AdamB]

I don't think so, United are too far away already....

Explain that?!?

 

[Baleforce]

Explain that?!?

they are awesome, they might draw a game, maybe even two or three, but they'll win at least 34 of them, they've just signed the Zlatan again, it's done

 

[90291Spur]

I'm glad I went out with my family rather than watch us give us a stoppage time goal. Poch needs to work on how we close out games - Cheat$ki and this - it's not acceptable, especially against a team like Burnley where we should have the quality to see the game out.

 

[camspur]

Our problem is not the defence it's the inability to pick the lock when opponents play a flat back 4 and 2 defensive midfielders crowding the edge of the box. There is a lack of guile to our play and we end up passing sideways for ages without any breakthrough. The reason teams can do this against us is we have nothing on either flank that scares them so they know we can't go down the flanks to beat them there and as good as Eriksen and Alli are they cannot produce the kliller pass every time they get the ball. If we had a plan B for going down the wings teams wouldn't be able to defend so deep and narrow, unfortunately we don't.

 

[fernadez]

Said about the full backs. Either we need a sight readjustment tactically or different full backs. You can't have the so high up the pitch etc with no recovery pace it's just asking for problems.

There was a ball in the second half, Trips had a yards on the guy but ended up having to make a slide tackle and put it out for a throw. Walker would have turned the yard into three, controlled the ball and started an attack.

 

[the dza]

I don't think so, United are too far away already, the good news is that arse are brick again, I reckon we'll be comfortably fourth with a 15 point cushion either way.

It's too early yet. Last season, Emirates Marketing Project won their first 6 games and had everyone w*nking about them. At that point, they were 8 points clear of Chelsea. Chelsea ended the season 15 points clear of them.

 

[ringo]

I don't agree. We haven't noticeably changed tactics between home and away games in the past and most away games will be on larger pitches.

The high line is about compressing play, so we should definitely continue with that in a larger pitch.

It should also be harder for poorer teams to shut up shop on a larger pitch. That should play in out favour.

Our pressing game evolved last season. We were a little more measured and again that should work better on a larger pitch.

We see the same every season. We start slowly and people start writing off our chances. Poch has been great at timing our form and fitness for the second half of the season, when it counts. I am sure that we will see the same again this year.

Our results at WHL last season were excellent. WHL is a much smaller pitch. I agree our fitness usually improves considerably over a season and we usually have strong run at the end or towards the end of the season, at least. And I support the pressing strategy generally speaking.

However, I think the opposition's ability to pack out the defence and crowd space is less compromised by the additional area of Wembley than our ability to press consistently and maintain a high line throughout over 90 mins.

At WHL the size of the pitch negated the opposition's ability to counter on the break, and helped us manage a press/high line over 90 -at Wembley it doesn't.

I believe unless we get more pace in the defence and rethink our approach to managing the last quarter of the game, we will be more vulnerable to the counter and we will win a lot fewer games at home than last season. i hope I'm wrong.

Separately I also think we lack some key players going forward - e.g pacy wide player/tricky dribbler. we lacked them last season too. But our home form compensated. I worry our goals for may not compensate for our goals against at home this season.

But, at I wrote in the Poch thread - I guess we will find out after a few weeks.

 

[AdamB]

Wembleys a much longer pitch....

Its only 5% longer though....105 yards vs 100. And when thinking about balls in behind the defence, given you only defend one end of a pitch you really are only looking at an extra 2.5 yards....so less than 2 strides for a 6 foot centre back? I'm really not sure I buy the pitch size thing, and we should be used to it given other grounds are the same size as Wembley. Obviously no way of really proving it though...

To me, if there is a Wembley impact, its more to do with not having the stands tight to the pitch at WHL which created a much more intense/hostile atmosphere for away teams.

Regardless, we really need to beat Swansea and then Bournemouth in our next two home league games to try to put this story to bed

 

[Baleforce]

It's too early yet. Last season, Emirates Marketing Project won their first 6 games and had everyone w*nking about them. At that point, they were 8 points clear of Chelsea. Chelsea ended the season 15 points clear of them.

City didn't have Jose and the Zlatan

 

[AdamB]

they are awesome, they might draw a game, maybe even two or three, but they'll win at least 34 of them, they've just signed the Zlatan again, it's done

Ballsy prediction!! Suggest you pop to the bookies as you'd get incredible odds on them winning 34 league games this season. You can then buy Spurs a new right back!