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American politics
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
A well crafted piece of anti-Pence propagandaI know.
I was curious whether it had been hacked or just a spoof.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
The later I'd say.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I see a sharks eyes. Lifeless and dead (I could be projecting here
Unfortunately I think the administration know the new face of fascism all too well. If they are not the hidden architects they are the certainly stoking the fire. And this time it's not some far fetched conspiracy theory. Trump, Sessions, Bannon, Gorka they all have past form.
What is weaponised autism? Weird.
I don't disagree with you - dead eyes without much remorse or empathy in them. I saw much the same expression carried by Dylan Roof in his mugshots post-arrest.
I also don't disagree that Steve Bannon knows *of* this type of racism. His rag was a dogwhistling haven for this sort of stuff. Ditto Gorka, Sessions and maybe even Trump - they all know *of* this type of thing, and may even be sympathetic to its spread.
But I don't think they know how to control it or use it to their benefit. No one does. Which is why I said they don't understand it, and that they are playing with things they have no real conception of. When Trump struck Syria, for example, he did it with the approval of everyone - Bannon, Gorka, Sessions, everyone. Breitbart ran lots and lots of editorials praising Trump for hitting Assad and mentioning how different to Obama he was, and how ISIS (which they subtly conflated with Muslims as a whole) would be scared of him as a result. That came from Bannon. Gorka and Sessions echoed the administration's line.
But the alt-right? They *hated* it. They called Trump a sellout, said he was controlled by the Jews, and that he was no better than any other president controlled by the Jewish cabal. It sparked a furious reaction amidst the alt-right, and almost got them off the Trump train as a whole. Even now, their open hostility to multiculturalism imposed by 'the Jews' goes far beyond even Bannon's dogwhistling, and exceeds even what Sessions and Gorka have said.
Bannon and co. wanted to use the alt-right as they wished - a convenient agglomeration that they could dog-whistle into obedience while still keeping the Republican Party's general line on things like Israel and not being *too* open on their racism lest they lose what little support remains from the moderate right.
The alt-right couldn't care less. And they don't get their cues from Bannon, Breitbart and the admnistration any more than they have to - if their extreme white nationalism, fascism and 'Identity Evropa' stuff doesn't come from Breitbart, they'll get it elsewhere, and sod the half-hearted dogwhistling that Breitbart tries to play the fence with. Trump and his macaronic advisors are not the be all and end all to these people - they are tools, to be disposed of when they stop being useful to white nationalism as a whole.
And I don't think Bannon and co. understand that dynamic. They think the alt-right are their tools. To the alt-right, it is the other way around. And their sustenance comes from the internet's many watering holes for white supremacist thought, not from Bannon's editorial line or the White House's press statements.
As for 'weaponized autism', it comes from the perception that the only people who frequent 4chan are autists somewhere on the spectrum - people too unable to have normal social interactions elsewhere, because they're shunned for being different or unlikable by dint of their autism. During the election, 4chan's memes and shilling for Trump reached enough of an audience for them to believe (not without some reason) that they had helped meme a president into office, an unprecedented display of power for them - thus, they had 'weaponized' their autism to cause damage to the system.
And I presume James Alex Fields, Jr. felt he shared that power.
It's depressing - autism is a legitimate disability that people suffer with and can be helped with. It shouldn't have been an identifier used to spread hatred. But then, nothing on 4chan is sacred, so maybe I'm the fool for thinking that way.
Look closely at the faces of many of the people being publicly outed in the wake of the march.
Look into the eyes of the person arrested for murdering an innocent woman and injuring 19 others.
What do you see?
Trump is being disingenuous when he claims that this was always around, before him and before Obama. It was not. At least, not in its entirety.
The kid who murdered Heather Heyer is 20 years old. He bought his car using money from a trust fund set up in his name, and was drummed out of US Army basic training shortly after enlisting.
Peter Cvjetanovic, pictured screaming in anger while holding aloft a torch, is 20 years old. He studies politics and history at the University of Nevada.
James Allsup, speaker at the rally, is in his early twenties, and studies political science at the Washington State University.
The list goes on. Pete Tefft, James Colligan, Daniel Reardon, Ryan Martin, Jacob Dix - all names that are being exposed on Twitter in the aftermath of this march. All men in their early twenties, some barely boys, others slightly older.
I wrote a long analysis of 4chan here a long time ago - of 4chan, and of chan culture more broadly. About the essential nihilism and social alienation that befalls people who end up spending more and more time there, shaping and being shaped by chan culture, going from edginess to cope with a world which has no place for them to genuinely believing the things they say and think.
This is where these people come from. This is not something that went on before Donald Trump, and before Barack Obama - this is a very new, very dangerously accessible, very virulent form of ethnic nationalism and racial discord that came from places like 4chan. The backcountry racists protest in their own ways, and their racism is easily understood and easily distinguishable as uniquely American in its enduring hatred.
The jump from them to 'Blood and Soil', 'We Will Not Be Replaced', however....that comes from a different, more dangerous place. And I don't think anyone in this macaronic administration or in the hapless government yet realizes how dangerously accessible the thinking that comes from that place is to people like this.
This is the emerging face of racism in America. Belittling it won't help anymore.
I still think you give too much credence to the ability of chantards to leave their parents' basements and go do something.
Most of the people from /b and /pol who post extreme opinions do it because making people mad is funny. It's especially funny to make vegan, cyclist millenials angry because they've spent their whole lives so sheltered from anything that might upset them and can't seem to deal with the anger that arises.
I have very little in common with the lives or politics of chantards, but I can see why they do what they do.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I'd argue that your view of /b/ and /pol/ is outdated.The irreverent, take-no-prisoners stuff that focused on making people mad at all costs died when Moot closed down /new/ and /news/ - before that, /b/ was the driver of 4chan traffic, and both /new/ and /news/ were places filled with brick-disturbers of every stripe, but after that, things changed. Moot got backed into a corner and set up /pol/ as a way to atone for the death of /news/ (the second time).
And /pol/ was no longer /news/. It is not /news/ now. It is not now a place where people only go to make other people mad. White supremacists found the place, found a willing audience for their views and changed the place to become one of the internet's central hubs for constant, unremitting white supremacist propaganda - /pol/ became the number one driver of traffic to 4chan, and /b/ (the manifestation of 4chan's previous take-no-prisoners, full-gun edginess) fell by the wayside.
What /pol/ is now is far from just a place to make millennials mad. Go there and see for yourself, if you wish - the sense of irreverence is *gone*, replaced by a very real (and unquestioning) devotion to red-pilling, Nazism, white supremacy and active organization in pursuit of these goals. Stormfront found the place, and turned it into a recruiting and organizing chamber which is now powerful enough to orchestrate rallies like Unite The Right and drive young white males to IRL violence.
That's sort of the point I was making when I made that initial post on 4chan (February, I think?), and it holds true even more now, imo - underestimating what /pol/ and 4chan have become and how quickly their sort of discourse is spreading through a disaffected generation of people facing unprecedented challenges compared to their parents and forefathers is a vividly dangerous thing.
As for the ability of anons to leave their basements, did you see the people attending the rally? Many of them *were* anons who looked like they'd emerged from basements. But they showed up. And one of them, a pudgy 20-year-old white kid with a trust fund who flunked out of Army basic training, filled his FB page with memes and apparently wasn't even attending community college or even any sort of education - that person drove a car into a crowd of counter-protestors and killed one brave young woman, while injuring 19 others.
Probably but if it wasn't religion it would be something else - same outcome different justification (IMO).
I don't think it would be - at least not to this extent.
Religion creates an environment where mental can thrive. Aspects such as belief in an afterlife and an all-powerful overseer are integral in getting people to make huge sacrifices. A prerequisite of religion is the surrender of independent thought, the belief that our actions are guided by a higher power.
Evil people would use other reasons to excuse evil action, of course, but without religion they would lack the tools to control such large numbers of people in such an absolute fashion.
Trump giving a speech on infrastructure:
"I didn't wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct."
"Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists.”
"There is another side...you can call them the left."
"I think there's blame on both sides... you also had people that were very fine people on both sides."
"You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent."
"Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statute of Robert E. Lee... I wonder, is it George Washington next week?"
"I own a house in Charlottesville. Does anyone know I own a house in Charlottesville?"
"I didn't wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct."
"Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists.”
"There is another side...you can call them the left."
"I think there's blame on both sides... you also had people that were very fine people on both sides."
"You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent."
"Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statute of Robert E. Lee... I wonder, is it George Washington next week?"
"I own a house in Charlottesville. Does anyone know I own a house in Charlottesville?"
The opposite is also used as justification - no afterlife means that there is no need to be "good".
I honestly believe that without religion you will have the same weak minded people led by strong minded people and the heard behaviour to commit the same horrible acts be that with the cult of nationalism, celebratory or an alternative we cant even think of.
Obviously just an example but Khumer Rouge / North Koreans were / are Atheist.
Murdoch is apparently keen on Trump getting rid of Bannon. It's ridiculous how one rich clam can influence politics in several countries.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Thanks for the viewpoint. I think I need to read about 4chan a bit more (when I'm drunk this weekend).