Champions League 2014/15

[the dza]

And also -- Napoli signed Maradona in 1984. It took until 86-87 season to win the title, so there is no way Maradona did it on his own. He was obviously their best and most important player, but they had to build a quality side to win the league. He didn't take average players to the Serie A title by himself.

World Cups, obviously Maradona has outperformed Messi, but then I'd say that the Champions League these days (latter stages) is the highest level of football and Messi has done the business there.

 

[jurgen lineker]

Nowhere near the best ever player. Never played out of the comfort zone of Barca, one of the biggest and best clubs in the world. Never done it for Argentina.

Maradona was so good that he single-handedly won titles and world-cups with teams that were barely 'above average' if it wasn't for him.

What has Messi done tonight? Granted, no title tonight but yet again he has proven to be the deciding factor in a a major game against world class opposition.

When it comes to this debate people seem to go on a lot about the achievements that Maradona has achieved and how Messi hasn't matched those particular feats, but then you could flip that argument and list multiple impressive feats that Messi has achieved that Maradona has not. Two off the top of my head would be; 3 European trophies to Maradona's 0, and most goals ever (91) in a calendar season.

At the end of the day it's subjective, but to claim he is nowhere near is just wrong.

 

[NWND]

Yeah, my opinion is that he's nowhere near being viewed as the best player ever. There's too many big games i've seen Messi not turn up for. I can't remember a game that Messi has single-handedly won in a struggling team performance. Barca played exceptionally across the park tonight and battered Bayern for the most part.

Barca rarely struggle to create opportunities, but when they do, does Messi single-handedly drag them through? I don't think he does.

Whereas for me, Maradona proved time and again you stick him in a team and he wins games, wins trophies. His team maybe on the ropes, but he will win that game single-handedly. He got kicked all over, but rode those leg-breakers.

I just think he had that eye of the tiger that Messi doesn't have for me. He's more of a fair-weather player.

I want him to really be the fulcrum of a team that hasn't been designed around him. Let him take what is a very talented Argentina squad and do something special, leading the way. Then I might put him up with Maradona.

At the moment, at this point in his career, for me? NOWHERE near.

 

[awesome dawson]

Messi will go down in history as better than Maradona and more loved for a number of reasons.

Modern day media focus, sheer number of goals at every level, trophies, could yet still rack a World Cup win in Russia, world player of the year x4 and counting etc etc.

Maradona was a coke fueled genius who waltzed past Peter Reid, Terry Butcher and a flat footed Peter Shilton to score the most over-rated goal of all time. Messi scores better goals than that every month against far better defenders.

 

[braineclipse]

Yeah, my opinion is that he's nowhere near being viewed as the best player ever. There's too many big games i've seen Messi not turn up for. I can't remember a game that Messi has single-handedly won in a struggling team performance. Barca played exceptionally across the park tonight and battered Bayern for the most part.

Barca rarely struggle to create opportunities, but when they do, does Messi single-handedly drag them through? I don't think he does.

Whereas for me, Maradona proved time and again you stick him in a team and he wins games, wins trophies. His team maybe on the ropes, but he will win that game single-handedly. He got kicked all over, but rode those leg-breakers.

I just think he had that eye of the tiger that Messi doesn't have for me. He's more of a fair-weather player.

I want him to really be the fulcrum of a team that hasn't been designed around him. Let him take what is a very talented Argentina squad and do something special, leading the way. Then I might put him up with Maradona.

At the moment, at this point in his career, for me? NOWHERE near.

How much did you watch Barca when they struggled under Martino, and earlier this season when they struggled under Luis Enrique?

He averaged very close to a goal a game last season under Martino, when most people accepted that Barcelona were struggling. I don't quite remember where, could have been football extra, but I think I remember someone saying that if not for Messi Luis Enrique could very well have lost his job earlier this season.

 

[Baleforce]

i'm making a conscious effort not to go down this rabbit hole ever again, it's all subjective, there is no answer everyone will agree on

he is, like others before him, and hopefully after him, absolutely magnificent, a supreme talent delivering on the highest stage

 

[NWND]

How much did you watch Barca when they struggled under Martino, and earlier this season when they struggled under Luis Enrique?

He averaged very close to a goal a game last season under Martino, when most people accepted that Barcelona were struggling. I don't quite remember where, could have been football extra, but I think I remember someone saying that if not for Messi Luis Enrique could very well have lost his job earlier this season.

Come on now, Barca struggling in that La Liga is that they are 2nd or 3rd and smashing teams 3-0 instead of 6-0. Last Liga is weak defensively for the most part and not very competitive after the top 7 or so.

 

[braineclipse]

Come on now, Barca struggling in that La Liga is that they are 2nd or 3rd and smashing teams 3-0 instead of 6-0. Last Liga is weak defensively for the most part and not very competitive after the top 7 or so.

Absolutely no excuses for Bale then? Really should be well past 20 league goals by now, perhaps closing in on 30?

 

[NWND]

Basically, take England and this current Spurs side, both decent teams, near the top of the rankings in Europe (England) and in the top 7 or 8 in the PL (Spurs). Both look far short on winning the world cup or league title. If you stuck Messi in the current England team I don't think we'd win the world cup or even threaten to. Similarly, don't think Messi would win Spurs the title.

I think history has shown that I think Maradona would win England the world cup or take us mighty close and win Spurs the league.

 

[jurgen lineker]

Yeah, my opinion is that he's nowhere near being viewed as the best player ever. There's too many big games i've seen Messi not turn up for. I can't remember a game that Messi has single-handedly won in a struggling team performance. Barca played exceptionally across the park tonight and battered Bayern for the most part.

Tonight. 10 mins to go and it was still 0-0, if it wasn't for Messi popping up in the last ten minutes then Barca would very likely have been out the competition come next week considering they had to go to Munich to pick up a result. Don't agree that Barca battered Bayern tonight either, both teams were superb tonight, Messi was the difference. If it wasn't for Messi at the end, a significant amount of praise would have been heaped on Bayern tonight for that performance.

 

[NWND]

Absolutely no excuses for Bale then? Really should be well past 20 league goals by now, perhaps closing in on 30?

Bale isn't a goal scorer extraordinaire. He had one beast season when he was moved from the wing to behind the striker and the whole team was built around him.

Other than that what's his average goal tally per season? Not that high.

 

[braineclipse]

Bale isn't a goal scorer extraordinaire. He had one beast season when he was moved from the wing to behind the striker and the whole team was built around him.

Other than that what's his average goal tally per season? Not that high.

Still... Playing for one of the truly top teams in a league that is "weak defensively for the most part and not very competitive after the top 7 or so".

Agree with Jurgen. Messi was the difference once again today and in classic Messi fashion scoring goals in situations where many others would have missed or at least not been nearly as lethal as he is.

In terms of the World Cup. I think we all know that both Maradona's win and Messi's second place could have gone a different way. It's just such a ridiculously small sample size to be making sweeping statements based on.

Ref spots Maradona's hand ball, disallows the goal and swiftly sends Maradona down the tunnel with a red card to his name. Would Maradona have been any worse as a player?

 

[Yiddo]

Yeah, my opinion is that he's nowhere near being viewed as the best player ever. There's too many big games i've seen Messi not turn up for. I can't remember a game that Messi has single-handedly won in a struggling team performance. Barca played exceptionally across the park tonight and battered Bayern for the most part.

Barca rarely struggle to create opportunities, but when they do, does Messi single-handedly drag them through? I don't think he does.

Whereas for me, Maradona proved time and again you stick him in a team and he wins games, wins trophies. His team maybe on the ropes, but he will win that game single-handedly. He got kicked all over, but rode those leg-breakers.

I just think he had that eye of the tiger that Messi doesn't have for me. He's more of a fair-weather player.

I want him to really be the fulcrum of a team that hasn't been designed around him. Let him take what is a very talented Argentina squad and do something special, leading the way. Then I might put him up with Maradona.

At the moment, at this point in his career, for me? NOWHERE near.

I do not rate Maradona or other players of that era as highly as other people do as football back then was full of tinkleheads and no where near the standard it is today.

 

[Yiddo]

Come on now, Barca struggling in that La Liga is that they are 2nd or 3rd and smashing teams 3-0 instead of 6-0. Last Liga is weak defensively for the most part and not very competitive after the top 7 or so.

So why is it some of the more sort after defenders at the moment are playing or have come over from Spain?

 

[Roy1983]

I disagree. Real football played by real men beats today's brand any day for me I only wish I was around back then to really appreciate it.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Yeah, my opinion is that he's nowhere near being viewed as the best player ever. There's too many big games i've seen Messi not turn up for. I can't remember a game that Messi has single-handedly won in a struggling team performance. Barca played exceptionally across the park tonight and battered Bayern for the most part.

Barca rarely struggle to create opportunities, but when they do, does Messi single-handedly drag them through? I don't think he does.

Whereas for me, Maradona proved time and again you stick him in a team and he wins games, wins trophies. His team maybe on the ropes, but he will win that game single-handedly. He got kicked all over, but rode those leg-breakers.

I just think he had that eye of the tiger that Messi doesn't have for me. He's more of a fair-weather player.

I want him to really be the fulcrum of a team that hasn't been designed around him. Let him take what is a very talented Argentina squad and do something special, leading the way. Then I might put him up with Maradona.

At the moment, at this point in his career, for me? NOWHERE near.

They were good, but did you see the chances that Neymar and Suarez missed? Messi took his chances. Well, they weren't even chances, the first one was a long range effort and the second was a sublime solo run that he created for himself, even then, he still had to beat the best keeper in the world.

He did the same in the CL semis against Real at the Bernabeu in 2011.

At club level, Messi is unrivalled. He still has to win a World Cup to be the best ever without an arguement.

Do people hold it against Pele because he only played for Santos and never proved himself in Europe? A lot of people don't realise that Pele actually got injured during one of those world cup campaigns, and they still won it without him.

 

[Baleforce]

They were good, but did you see the chances that Neymar and Suarez missed? Messi took his chances. Well, they weren't even chances, the first one was a long range effort and the second was a sublime solo run that he created for himself, even then, he still had to beat the best keeper in the world.

He did the same in the CL semis against Real at the Bernabeu in 2011.

At club level, Messi is unrivalled. He still has to win a World Cup to be the best ever without an arguement.

Do people hold it against Pele because he only played for Santos and never proved himself in Europe? A lot of people don't realise that Pele actually got injured during one of those world cup campaigns, and they still won it without him.

generally agree, the bolded bit though, yeah, I've heard that trotted out quite a bit, more so a decade ago when then the conversation was about Diego and Pele as best player ever

I'm not sure and I have no data to prove it but my feeling is that in Argentina they still love Diego more, not just because he actually won it but because of everything, his character, even the cheating, especially the cheating perhaps, certainly against England

 

[Modric THFC]

Messi could play in central midfield if he wanted and be a better passer than xavi pirlo modric.

 

[indospurs]

Amazing no one hasn't written in here after the mega- match up between Barca and Bayern. I'm sure we all hoped this semi was going to be great to watch, and just looking at the first leg, Bayern lasted for around 70-75 minutes before Messi Magic kicked in. We got what we wanted, and more, the second goal was sublime, and the third was the perfect sucker punch, great counter which saw Barca's unstoppable front 3 link up and make Bayern pay.

Roll on 2nd leg, both games ! I do hope Juve make a fist of it in Madrid, wonder what Bayern can do at their home ground. Two absolutely fantastic semis.

 

[DubaiSpur]

It takes balls to play that high a line when up against Neymar, Suarez and Messi, to say nothing of Luis Enrique's direct forward style. Credit to Pep for sticking to his principles. It did, however, lead to his team being bummed, so maybe not the best time to be idealistic.