Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Missing the point entirely.

He went from "I'm happy with the squad we've got here" and "I trust this group of players to take us where we want to be", when things are going well...to....

...."this squad is much of a muchness" when things aren't going well. Not-me-guv..

What's the common chant aimed at Liverpool/Liverpool fans again? "Always some else, it's never your fault"...quite apt here I think

Here is the full "much of a muchness" quote, even though I know nobody is the least bit interested in doing anything other than misquoting it and taking it out of context:

"I have assessed the players more than anyone and I could not tell you the best 11 players at Tottenham. They are all so similar, much of a muchness regarding the same quality. I'm not sure there's any hierarchy."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/18/tim-sherwood-tottenham-hotspur


Much of a muchness in terms of quality...no hierarchy.

Totally, totally different meaning to the idiomatic "much of a muchness" which means "indistinguishable in their mediocrity".

Not the same thing. Obviously not the same thing. People don't care. Whatever.

I don't mean to be rude or aggressive, honestly, this distortion just really bugs me a lot though.

 

[kanoute16]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He also came up with some of the most ridiculous statements to the media and also rarely took responsibility due to being so defensive when questioned about things.

I really like Sherwood saying our squad is much of a much because it's damn true. We all know it (hence we still don't know our first X1 and preferred formation) so i was pleased he put it out there so the overrated players that continuously got their arses handed to them knew where management stood. I don't care if it hurt their feelings....they hurt my feelings getting lubed up continuously this season and performing like ****.

I disagree with this, the players do not strike me as lazy or disinterested, for me its down to lack of belief.Do they believe in the manager, his philosphy, his vision? Are they motivated and inspired by him? I don't think they are and his comments and attitude towards them doesn't help. This idea that footballers should be up for it at all times because they earn a hell of a lot of money is nonsense. They respond to their manager who allows them to play to their strengths. Does Tim do this? I don't think he does

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Here is the full "much of a muchness" quote, even though I know nobody is the least bit interested in doing anything other than misquoting it and taking it out of context:



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/18/tim-sherwood-tottenham-hotspur


Much of a muchness in terms of quality...no hierarchy.

Totally, totally different meaning to the idiomatic "much of a muchness" which means "indistinguishable in their mediocrity".

Not the same thing. Obviously not the same thing. People don't care. Whatever.

I don't mean to be rude or aggressive, honestly, this distortion just really bugs me a lot though.

So what was the context of this coming FROM Sherwood?? Why was HE taking about this?
Many squads around the country could be described the same; Arsenal's attacking midfielder possibly for example (why pay 45M for Ozil when you could spend half of that money bolstering 2/3 other areas) but you don't hear other managers of top 6 clubs talking like this ABOUT THEIR OWN PLAYERS FFS.

I put it to you that HE was setting up HIS excuses for failure and the failure to know the best starting line-ups/players after his pronouncements in January. Even IF it is true, I ask you why would HE HIMSELF (not us fans, the MANAGER) come out with this if not to deflect blame from himself??

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So what was the context of this coming FROM Sherwood?? Why was HE taking about this?
Many squads around the country could be described the same; Arsenal's attacking midfielder possibly for example (why pay 45M for Ozil when you could spend half of that money bolstering 2/3 other areas) but you don't hear other managers of top 6 clubs talking like this ABOUT THEIR OWN PLAYERS FFS.

I put it to you that HE was setting up HIS excuses for failure and the failure to know the best starting line-ups/players after his pronouncements in January. Even IF it is true, I ask you why would HE HIMSELF (not us fans, the MANAGER) come out with this if not to deflect blame from himself??

Because the opposite is even worse to hear from a manager: Players X, Y and Z are undroppable and are my favourites. Sherwood has gone out of his way several times to say players get picked on merit, and nothing else.

The immediate context was that Sherwood was asked about fielding an unchanged team for the first time. His answer was that all our players are of similar quality, and that there isn't a hierarchy of stars and undroppables.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Because the opposite is even worse to hear from a manager: Players X, Y and Z are undroppable and are my favourites. Sherwood has gone out of his way several times to say players get picked on merit, and nothing else.

The immediate context was that Sherwood was asked about fielding an unchanged team for the first time. His answer was that all our players are of similar quality, and that there isn't a hierarchy of stars and undroppables.

The full quote:

"I couldn't tell you what my best team is and I don't know whether that's good or bad," Sherwood said. "I have assessed the players more than anyone and I could not tell you the best 11 players at Tottenham. They are all so similar, much of a muchness regarding the same quality. I'm not sure there's any hierarchy. Our two exceptions are the goalie and Adebayor. Christian Eriksen is getting that way inclined. You can't leave him out at the moment."

Ok so far, so mundane. Why he's talking about this GHod only knows (especially when he effectively DID name the same line-up for the match anyway...
I'm not even going to get into whether, say Sandro is better suited to playing in CM than Chadli btw.
But what quality are they a much-of-a-muchness? Are they all the same "high-class quality"?

"They are all good but the fans know it themselves – is there any world-class Gareth Bale-type player? No, there is not. Always you look for blend. Some of the guys are quite similar in the way that they play. We need different types of midfield player, for instance."

So straight away he says there are all good, samey but none world class like Gareth Bale.
Why was HE bringing this up?? Could he not have said the mundane thing (i.e. and outline what he actually DID do anyway) and say "I plan to start the same line-up as I did the previous game"?? Simple, nothing more to say.
Why bring up the fact that the squad lacks a "world class player" like Bale? Did you or anyone else feel 'enlightened' by this?
What was the point he was trying to make (other than 'Not-me-guv')??

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I put it to you that HE was setting up HIS excuses for failure and the failure to know the best starting line-ups/players after his pronouncements in January. Even IF it is true, I ask you why would HE HIMSELF (not us fans, the MANAGER) come out with this if not to deflect blame from himself??

i agree and i think levy and baldini would feel the same. he knows his time is up.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Here is the full "much of a muchness" quote, even though I know nobody is the least bit interested in doing anything other than misquoting it and taking it out of context:



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/18/tim-sherwood-tottenham-hotspur


Much of a muchness in terms of quality...no hierarchy.

Totally, totally different meaning to the idiomatic "much of a muchness" which means "indistinguishable in their mediocrity".

Not the same thing. Obviously not the same thing. People don't care. Whatever.

I don't mean to be rude or aggressive, honestly, this distortion just really bugs me a lot though.

I tell you what I care about there mate. I care about the fact that he told everyone he has been unable to figure out his best 11 despite spending 'more time than anyone' looking over the squad. That's a problem for me. A massive one. And even if he IS going to make these statements, he does nothing to put a positive spin on it. Why not make the 'much of muchness' comment a positive by perhaps waxing lyrical about the 'top quality' he has available for many positions? I believe he is performing the classic 'look what I had to work with' tactic.

Here's the truth. We could end up with the same points as last year. Despite everything. That tells me that bar a new left-back and a quality CB, we have a very decent squad indeed.

I'm sorry Chancer, I admire your brave defence of the guy, but let's face facts, he is a ****ing tosser.

 

[THFC6061]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I tell you what I care about there mate. I care about the fact that he told everyone he has been unable to figure out his best 11 despite spending 'more time than anyone' looking over the squad. That's a problem for me. A massive one. And even if he IS going to make these statements, he does nothing to put a positive spin on it. Why not make the 'much of muchness' comment a positive by perhaps waxing lyrical about the 'top quality' he has available for many positions? I believe he is performing the classic 'look what I had to work with' tactic.

Here's the truth. We could end up with the same points as last year. Despite everything. That tells me that bar a new left-back and a quality CB, we have a very decent squad indeed.

I'm sorry Chancer, I admire your brave defence of the guy, but let's face facts, he is a ****ing tosser.

On the other hand, if the Premier League had started when Sherwood was appointed, the table would look like this...

... it's fine to have a personal opinion about Sherwood (good, bad or indifferent) but not to acknowledge or to belittle his achievements this season is plainly insane.

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

a straight line projection isn't fair especially if its retrospective.

back to the start of the season we'd lost bale and had bought 7 new players - that would be a gargantuan effort in iteself and AVB pretty much left us still in contention for 4th while buying time for the team to gel, for players to gain confidence etc.

 

[THFC6061]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

a straight line projection isn't fair especially if its retrospective.

back to the start of the season we'd lost bale and had bought 7 new players - that would be a gargantuan effort in iteself and AVB pretty much left us still in contention for 4th while buying time for the team to gel, for players to gain confidence etc.

André Villas-Boas won 27 points from his 16 Premier League games this season, an average of 1.69 points per match.

Tim Sherwood has won 39 points from his 20 Premier League games this season, an average of 1.95 points per match (which could rise to 2.05 if we win our last two games).

The difference is 64 points for the season for AVB compared with 74 points (or 78 points with two more wins) for Sherwood.

Why is is so hard for some on here to see the difference?

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i recognize the mathematical difference as it is, but I apply my judgement and I see that it isn't a like for like comparison.

I would have to take into account that Tim Sherwood took over a team with 7 new players who had half a season together, while AVB didn't.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

... it's fine to have a personal opinion about Sherwood (good, bad or indifferent) but not to acknowledge or to belittle his achievements this season is plainly insane.

I have acknowledged what I feel he has done well. Bentaleb. Bringing back Adebayor (Ray Charles could've seen that need). So there's two. I was intrigued by his approach at first, but then it wore thin as you realized he simply refused to learn.

I think it's plainly insane to rely on a graphic which is itself based on a hypothetical situation.
I propose that the definition of 'insanity' might need re-visiting!

BTW, I know you enjoy posting that graphic mate, but I've tried to figure out it's relevance to the point it was used as a reply to!

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

André Villas-Boas won 27 points from his 16 Premier League games this season, an average of 1.69 points per match.

Tim Sherwood has won 39 points from his 20 Premier League games this season, an average of 1.95 points per match (which could rise to 2.05 if we win our last two games).

The difference is 64 points for the season for AVB compared with 74 points (or 78 points with two more wins) for Sherwood.

Why is is so hard for some on here to see the difference?

Would the fact that Sherwood has had the opportunity to tonk more dross than AVB got have a bearing? I suspect it would...

 

[THFC6061]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Would the fact that Sherwood has had the opportunity to tonk more dross than AVB got have a bearing? I suspect it would...

AVB lost to two clubs who were below us in the League - West Ham & Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Sherwood has only lost once - to Norwich.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

André Villas-Boas won 27 points from his 16 Premier League games this season, an average of 1.69 points per match.

Tim Sherwood has won 39 points from his 20 Premier League games this season, an average of 1.95 points per match (which could rise to 2.05 if we win our last two games).

The difference is 64 points for the season for AVB compared with 74 points (or 78 points with two more wins) for Sherwood.

Why is is so hard for some on here to see the difference?

Because we're not playing the same generic team every week.

AVB was one point behind last season's results against the same teams, while Sherwood is one point ahead so far, but we have to win both our remaining ones for it to stay that way.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

AVB lost to two clubs who were below us in the League - West Ham & Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Sherwood has only lost once - to Norwich.

Errr, in his first game in charge, Timbo managed to get us knocked out of a cup by one of those two!

Plus AVB didn't get us knocked out of the Europa or the FA Cups either…look, if you insist on turning this into an AVB v Timbo thing, that's yours to enjoy. I think it was clear that for a variety of reasons, the AVB appt was at an end. But please, enough trying to convince people that Sherwood has been a 'great success'...

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Errr, in his first game in charge, Timbo managed to get us knocked out of a cup by one of those two!

Plus AVB didn't get us knocked out of the Europa or the FA Cups either…look, if you insist on turning this into an AVB v Timbo thing, that's yours to enjoy. I think it was clear that for a variety of reasons, the AVB appt was at an end. But please, enough trying to convince people that Sherwood has been a 'great success'...

Steff you're not allowed to get include any matches that make Timmeh look bad.

Bad cherrypicking Steff, bad cherrypicking.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Arsenal celebrate the work of 'Agent Tim' last night:

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tim hasn't exactly helped in hiding/protecting those deficiences though has he? Look at Chelsea yesterday, perfect game plan, would Tim ever do that? He'd more than likely go with the current ****witted lineup because it worked at home to Fulham.

The results against the top teams are pretty much the same under both managers. Arsenal's results against the top three are erily similar too.

If we tried to enact Chelsea's game plan (under either manager) we would be slaughtered. We just don't have the discipline and our fans would get on the teams back.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Arsenal celebrate the work of 'Agent Tim' last night:

you're clearly delusional but it's also very clear you say things for reaction.