Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[ricky2tricky4city]

Agree with all of that.
But you can't fight today's battle on yesterday's battlefield; you can't win that because the enemy is elsewhere, your screams are only an echo and you just fight your own shadow

Then you learned nothing from the Brexit vote and become complicit in any success for Reform

So what is it you think we need to do to beat Reform?

Exactly Monkeybarry....you have to approach them with your own disinformation, simplistic rhetoric false flags and dog whistles!

Honesty, reasoning, empathy, factual information.....all bottom of the list and out of fashion.

Great innit. What a time to be alive.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I'm not typing it all again

I'll quote it

It's folly to dismiss it though. You can't fight feelings with facts.

His claim is overblown, but it does contain some truth. All emotion driven narratives do - to look at the extreme;
were the Jews responsible for Germany's post WWI issues? No.
Did Jewish people play a part in the activities that drove the feelings of despair within Germany? Absolutely.

The best response to people like Reform IMHO is to acknowledge the concern and suggest a path focused on tackling and eliminating all racism.
That immediately softens the position, acknowledges the issue, shines a light on the ridiculousness of extremism, and creates a position fascists can't handle - tackling real problems instead of dog whistling

Which concern should I acknowledge?

 

[monkeybarry]

I'll quote it



Which concern should I acknowledge?

That white people experience racism in the UK

 

[monkeybarry]

Exactly Monkeybarry....you have to approach them with your own disinformation, simplistic rhetoric false flags and dog whistles!

Honesty, reasoning, empathy, factual information.....all bottom of the list and out of fashion.

Great innit. What a time to be alive.

I don't think you do - although I do fear I'm wrong on that.
Diluting their message and suggesting reasonable solutions - that's like cryptonite to fascists; they need falacy and fear to survive. But have to recognise the emotions that drive their vote and the kernel of truth within the argument.

 

[LutonSpurs]

That white people experience racism in the UK

What? I only ever contested Zias claim that white people are the most racially oppressed in the UK. When did anyone say otherwise?

 

[monkeybarry]

What? I only ever contested Zias claim that white people are the most racially oppressed in the UK. When did anyone say otherwise?

Again, go and read my posts and your responses.

Specifically, but not exclusively,
"And giving even an inch to reform types is basically giving up on my values."

 

[LutonSpurs]

Again, go and read my posts and your responses.

Specifically, but not exclusively,
"And giving even an inch to reform types is basically giving up on my values."

That isn't the same as me saying white people don't experience racism. I know they do. And I've always said it. Your whole response to me is based on a thing I have not said or believed.

Sorry Barry. You are making no sense to me.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Hahaha

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There's a portion of posters on here who absolutely die on this hill. The level of dim needed to convince your self you are under apartheid here as a white person is special. ZIa isn't dim. He's feeding you this rage bait and the dim part is: the masses lapping it up.

It's folly to dismiss it though. You can't fight feelings with facts.

His claim is overblown, but it does contain some truth. All emotion driven narratives do - to look at the extreme;
were the Jews responsible for Germany's post WWI issues? No.
Did Jewish people play a part in the activities that drove the feelings of despair within Germany? Absolutely.

The best response to people like Reform IMHO is to acknowledge the concern and suggest a path focused on tackling and eliminating all racism.
That immediately softens the position, acknowledges the issue, shines a light on the ridiculousness of extremism, and creates a position fascists can't handle - tackling real problems instead of dog whistling

There is no demonstrable evidence for his claim. It has to be rejected as a lie and rage bait.

It isn't an over blown claim. It's an outright lie

 

[monkeybarry]

There is no demonstrable evidence for his claim. It has to be rejected as a lie and rage bait.

It isn't an over blown claim. It's an outright lie

Incorrect.
It is an overblown claim - the basis of the claim is that white people experience racism; this is true.
The substance of the claim is that they are the biggest victims: that is not true.

Reform present incorrect facts to garner feelings that votes. You can't fight feelings by dismissing legitimate claims (that white people experience racism) by shouting liar at someone - all that does is solidify their position that they are not listened to, and they then vote Reform.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Incorrect.
It is an overblown claim - the basis of the claim is that white people experience racism; this is true.
The substance of the claim is that they are the biggest victims: that is not true.

Reform present incorrect facts to garner feelings that votes. You can't fight feelings by dismissing legitimate claims (that white people experience racism) by shouting liar at someone - all that does is solidify their position that they are not listened to, and they then vote Reform.

I think we have an entirely different understanding about when an embellishment becomes a lie. I dismissed the lie. I never dismissed the other part. I'm not sure you are reading my posts.

 

[WillWeEverBeGoodAgain]

So who believes her then ???
Literally nobody, yet another with their nose in the trough, cretins the lot of them

Sturgeon tells BBC: I'm serving a sentence for crime I didn't commit

Scotland's former first minister is challenged by Laura Kuenssberg over the SNP embezzlement scandal, and at times struggles to hold back tears.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Glenda's Legs]

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[Lost Mango]

Do white people genuinely get racial discriminated against? Are they at a disadvantage in situations because of their skin colour? Not saying it can't happen but asking if it does? if so, where and when?

I get that certain communities where opportunities and education are both limited are disadvantaged but even there is that because the community is white or because the community members lack the skills necessary for whatever they are being barred from?

It is the age old immigrants taking my job thing. Are they getting the job because they aren't white or because they are better skilled, have a better work ethic or will work brick hours for poor pay?

 

[glasgowspur]

Do white people genuinely get racial discriminated against? Are they at a disadvantage in situations because of their skin colour? Not saying it can't happen but asking if it does? if so, where and when?

I get that certain communities where opportunities and education are both limited are disadvantaged but even there is that because the community is white or because the community members lack the skills necessary for whatever they are being barred from?

It is the age old immigrants taking my job thing. Are they getting the job because they aren't white or because they are better skilled, have a better work ethic or will work brick hours for poor pay?

Individually, yes of course they are.
Systematically, no, I don't think they are at all.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Individually, yes of course they are.
Systematically, no, I don't think they are at all.

This.

 

[Lost Mango]

Individually, yes of course they are.
Systematically, no, I don't think they are at all.

How are they individually? What is denied them or in what situation are they subject to racism.

I live a fairly privileged middle class existence, although I have worked extensively across Africa and other communities where I was the only white person for miles, but I can't see what constitutes actual racism against individuals in the white community. I can't think of names they are called that equate to the N word or the P word, I can't recall seeing pubs or shops with the equivalent signs of 'no irish, no p***, no dogs' on the door. I can't recall even when living within the Blackbird Leys riots in Oxford in 1991 any overt issue with white people, just the police.

What constitutes racism against white people on an individual basis based purely on their skin colour rather than their ethnicity (Irish, gypsy, traveller, Romanian, Pole etc) or religion?