We haven't different ideas of what we are fighting for. I have a clear line of how much I value my self. And my family. And giving even an inch to reform types is basically giving up on my values.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
We haven't different ideas of what we are fighting for. I have a clear line of how much I value my self. And my family. And giving even an inch to reform types is basically giving up on my values.
monkeybarry
Luka Modric
Then you learned nothing from the Brexit vote and become complicit in any success for Reform
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
The best way traditionally to deal with the far right is actually to goad them into violence. That's what instantly turns the centre right away from them and keeps them on the fridges
This is harsh.
Nicola Sturgeon : I genuinely do not recall seeing a motorhome parked up at my in-laws house.
As soon as someone says "I do not recall" the alarm bells start to ring.
As soon as someone says "I do not recall" the alarm bells start to ring.
MartyFunkhouser
Garth Crooks
Yeh, she has been legally coached
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
Tell you what's even more disturbing, all the people who listened to what she said but didn't look at what she did.
Stranger still is where all those people have gone.
richie_spur
Michael Brown
That's cold, dude!
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
Sturgeon told the BBC: "I am not responsible for the crimes that my former husband committed and I'm not going to apologise for somebody else's crimes."
You're responsible for the crimes committed by your employee, an employee your were repeatedly told was up to no good.
You not only refused to listen you actively sought to close them and threaten them.
Stop playing the misogyny card, the fact he is a man is neither here nor there, in fact if he goes to jail you don't I think we can it is misandry.
You're responsible for the crimes committed by your employee, an employee your were repeatedly told was up to no good.
You not only refused to listen you actively sought to close them and threaten them.
Stop playing the misogyny card, the fact he is a man is neither here nor there, in fact if he goes to jail you don't I think we can it is misandry.
MartyFunkhouser
Garth Crooks
That’s coming close to victim blaming.
“You didn’t try to stop it happening so you are responsible for what happened”.
What racism is there against white people in a systemic or institutional way? Or do you mean some people perceive attempts at redressing inequality as racism?
monkeybarry
Luka Modric
It's only victim blaming if you use a narrow and idealistic lens, rather than living in Real Politik.
But answer this question - if someone that has experienced racist treatment is talking down to someone that has experienced racist treatment, at what point does it become victim blaming? And what should you change to get to a point where you are talking with eachother instead of at eachother?
It is ridiculous to say there is no racism towards white people.
Is it systemic? - I see no evidence to support that, no. But as I said earlier, being right isn't the starting point here, because all it does is close down the other party.
The point I've been making is - people ARE voting Reform; they are not ALL racist. Some are - you can't affect them.
Most are not - they are voting Reform because they are fed up with living conditions and buy into the easy answers Reform spouts. Some of those people will have experienced racism as white person (and remember, that doesn't just mean British), so if the response is "no, no, you are wrong, and Reform are lying", you solidify their Reform vote.
So in this particular example I explaining how a conversation can be had that dilutes Reforms false flag message. Just shouting "wrong" or "racist" isn't going to do it.
"The left" didn't listen to, or properly address, the valid pre Brexit concerns - look what's happened.
monkeybarry
Luka Modric
It's also true.
Sadly we live in harsh and over magnified times where disinformation and exaggeration are king.
So I have to suffer while horrific views get sanitised?
MartyFunkhouser
Garth Crooks
Of course, but conversely if you were to have the conversation and say "well I think you are wrong and the stats show that Islamophobia, Antisemitism are by far greater" I am fairly sure you would be shouted down by those that are guilty of both whilst voting reform. I only have to read the responses to the original post on twitter to see that.
So whilst I massively agree with your point generally, in reality I am not convinced the engagement works either, I think cynically we are beyond people even wanting to explore the truths
monkeybarry
Luka Modric
I think we are beyond a large amount of people not being interested in the truth, but not all 3.8million that voted Reform.
It horrible, but we are now at the point where it's important to expose the reasons to NOT vote Reform.
We are heading towards a hung parliament - these are the things that will decide what that looks like.
monkeybarry
Luka Modric
Nowhere have I said that, or anything close.
Re-read my posts.
I'd suggest reading Nikesh Shuklas book, The Good Immigrant. It really is a good insight in to my views but written by somebody with a bigger brain and more eloquence.
So what is it you think we need to do to beat Reform?
monkeybarry
Luka Modric
I'm not typing it all again