Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Silly McSilly Face]

When an attack minded manager loses over 50% of their games because we are too open and a defensive manager loses over 50% of their games because we are not very good at shutting teams out, maybe, just maybe, for all the faults of both managers, there is a glaring answer here: that both individually and collectively our defenders and GK are trash

 

[thfcsteff]

I dont think its down to a numbers recruiter to do that personally. VV was bought in, even under Levy as this great uniter of men, women and all. Despite what, two videos and a fans forum, I see nothing currently to suggest there is a clearer identity. Granted it takes time but we look a shambles

I wholly agree, he is absolutely behaving like a VP of something and not a leader. People bang on about his goon-time; he had a stong DoF there in Edu, whose relationship with Arteta was key in them surviving. He is relying on the same dynamic with Frank and Lange IMO; a dangerous strategy.

 

[thfcsteff]

When an attack minded manager loses over 50% of their games because we are too open and a defensive manager loses over 50% of their games because we are not very good at shutting teams out, maybe, just maybe, for all the faults of both managers, there is a glaring answer here: that both individually and collectively our defenders and GK are trash

Certainly a question worth asking, but seeing as our CBs are starters for their nations and our FBs internationals too, I'd say there's more to it. The keeper is certainly suspect in several ways. I still think with those two CBs playing the same amount of games last season as this, we'd have had significantly more points, but it is just a theory based on numbers when they were available.
Hard not to feel sorry for Frank re: injuries. They're mounting up. As they do when you have to keep playing the same players. As we've seen in previous seasons when said-injuries were blamed solely on a series of false premises.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I wholly agree, he is absolutely behaving like a VP of something and not a leader. People bang on about his goon-time; he had a stong DoF there in Edu, whose relationship with Arteta was key in them surviving. He is relying on the same dynamic with Frank and Lange IMO; a dangerous strategy.

I dont think Franks the main issue here but if VV wants to lead in his own vision then IMO he needs to clear the decks and place his own structure and maybe that includes Frank going.

The talk about this super City bloke coming in seems to have cooled.

Im not sure having the Fab rumours hanging over us help things in an active window either.

What a mess

 

[Gutter Boy]

Fair play to Frank to be honest. Throwing the league to go all in on winning the CL takes gonads

 

[thfcsteff]

I dont think Franks the main issue here but if VV wants to lead in his own vision then IMO he needs to clear the decks and place his own structure and maybe that includes Frank going.

The talk about this super City bloke coming in seems to have cooled.

Im not sure having the Fab rumours hanging over us help things in an active window either.

What a mess

You'll remember a few weeks back I started a thread to somewhat offer some mitigation for what Frank is going through. I have not been shy in saying I do not like his style of football, but I am also able to see that he is also in an unfortunate situation.

 

[billyiddo]

I dont think Franks the main issue here but if VV wants to lead in his own vision then IMO he needs to clear the decks and place his own structure and maybe that includes Frank going.

The talk about this super City bloke coming in seems to have cooled.

Im not sure having the Fab rumours hanging over us help things in an active window either.

What a mess

Not to make excuses but i think i would be right in saying that usually when there is a lot of turmoil off the pitch (above the first team squad & manager) then results & performances tend to suffer - new owners, new CEOs (or whatever Vini's title is) rumours of more structural change, Paratichi up in the air - unsettled environments are not the best breeding grounds for success.


I know Levy helped create the situation we're in but I wonder if the Lewis' regret jumping in while we were at a low point (yes I know the cup win was a massive high)

 

[Robspur12]

FFS if we weren’t in a relegation fight last season then we aren’t now. We are on 27 points atm. 4 wins and a draw from 40 points with 17 games to go. Look things are not great but relegation -not having it.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's just ugly all round.
There has rarley been any balance to the discussions around Thomas Frank, and much of that is probably not his fault at all (the Sissoko Rule again!)...
The world is generally feeling pretty stressed and toxic right now, so football as a last escape, well, when it isn't one, people go mega-bananas. If we'd won tonight, I feel there'd have been plenty in here looking to score points in the 'pro-Frank' camp. Our loss tonight doesn't have me wanting to 'score' any points whatsoever, in fact it amplifies a sad situation...that the issues are deep.

 

[thfcsteff]

Not to make excuses but i think i would be right in saying that usually when there is a lot of turmoil off the pitch (above the first team squad & manager) then results & performances tend to suffer - new owners, new CEOs (or whatever Vini's title is) rumours of more structural change, Paratichi up in the air - unsettled environments are not the best breeding grounds for success

Again, and not to belabour the point but it seems to have been missed, I started a thread about this exact series of issues a few weeks back.

 

[billyiddo]

It's just ugly all round.
There has rarley been any balance to the discussions around Thomas Frank, and much of that is probably not his fault at all (the Sissoko Rule again!)...
The world is generally feeling pretty stressed and toxic right now, so football as a last escape, well, when it isn't one, people go mega-bananas. If we'd won tonight, I feel there'd have been plenty in here looking to score points in the 'pro-Frank' camp. Our loss tonight doesn't have me wanting to 'score' any points whatsoever, in fact it amplifies a sad situation...that the issues are deep.

There's point scoring from all directions atm mate and has been from very early in the season


Well apart from on the pitch lol

 

[thfcsteff]

FFS if we weren’t in a relegation fight last season then we aren’t now. We are on 27 points atm. 4 wins and a draw from 40 points with 17 games to go. Look things are not great but relegation -not having it.

I agree, however we have 2 wins in 12, mounting injuries too. We at least have to be aware that right now, getting the necessary wins is not going to be a cakewalk. All of a sudden the West Ham game looks absolutely massive. We simply cannot afford anything less than three points in that specific game IMO.

 

[Robspur12]

I feel there'd have been plenty in here looking to score points in the 'pro-Frank' camp.

Not like you at all to take such a one eyed view. It’s fair to say there has been a lot of hysteria and points scoring in the Frank out camp too.

 

[thfcsteff]

There's point scoring from all directions atm mate and has been from very early in the season


Well apart from on the pitch lol

Indeed, that is sadly the era we live in.

I'll say I have repeatedly tried to understand and cede discussions as to what is going on, whilst maintaing my personal opinion that I do not like the overall way we are playing football.

Of all the nights though, tonight I do have a larger degree of sympathy for Frank than usual.

 

[SteveAWOL]

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[thfcsteff]

Not like you at all to take such a one eyed view. It’s fair to say there has been a lot of hysteria and points scoring in the Frank out camp too.

I think in light of the conversations I've tried to have -the balanced ones- this is exceptionally unfair. Do I also have to remind you of this thread? Here, just in case...I started it on Christmas Eve (LOL)...it has been buried since.

EDIT: I had to re-read that, as initially, it felt you were implying with sarcasm that I am one-eyed in these discussions.

https://www.glory-glory.co.uk/threa...urs-and-some-sympathy-for-thomas-frank.12428/

 

[Welshspur60]

Another season where we are relying on 3 or 4 teams being worse than us to avoid the unthinkable that is relegation.
Im not season any real improvements in this team. Defensively we are so poor at closing players down and even clearing the ball we just give it straight back to the opposition.
Offensively we are nowhere near it. Kolo Muani, Richarlison , Oderbert,Tel
How far we have regressed. Kane and Sonny carried us for years.
Terrible recruitment, no youngsters coming through deemed good enough??,
and now we have a manager who just cant get a tune out of this albeit very poor squad . Id say Frank out, but have a feeling we are stuck with him until the summer.

 

[Welshspur60]

Does anyone actually want Thomas Frank to stay as they think he is a good manager for us? Not saying for anyone that thinks we should give him a chance. But who actually thinks he’s good for us? I can’t see how he stays on any longer. Who is there backing him now?

Never wanted him. He hasnt improved us in any area except perhaps Paulinha has shored us up defensively a little. But that wasnt hard after Anges lack of any defensive strategy. Again though, we needed a total squad overhaul but we brought in Xavi and Paulinha, and loaned Kolo Muani, when we needed a lot more than that to improve us.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It's just ugly all round.
There has rarley been any balance to the discussions around Thomas Frank, and much of that is probably not his fault at all (the Sissoko Rule again!)...
The world is generally feeling pretty stressed and toxic right now, so football as a last escape, well, when it isn't one, people go mega-bananas. If we'd won tonight, I feel there'd have been plenty in here looking to score points in the 'pro-Frank' camp. Our loss tonight doesn't have me wanting to 'score' any points whatsoever, in fact it amplifies a sad situation...that the issues are deep.

Personally my arguments about Frank have mainly been with myself. I like him as a person, want him to succeed. That's in contrast to all of Ange, Conte and Mourinho, who i actively disliked, so had little tolerance for.

But the sample size is big enough now, and there are no green shoots. We arent getting better and there's no sign of what the plan or vision is. I would absolutely have rejoiced if we'd come out tonight, played aggressive pass and move football and blown them away. But ive just finally accepted that that is just never going to happen. He is another Nuno or Potter

 

[kb 1984]

I wholly agree, he is absolutely behaving like a VP of something and not a leader. People bang on about his goon-time; he had a stong DoF there in Edu, whose relationship with Arteta was key in them surviving. He is relying on the same dynamic with Frank and Lange IMO; a dangerous strategy.

Except football club chairman or whatever VV is don't make public statements unless it's in house puff pieces. So we have no idea if VV is a leader because we don't know what he is doing behind the scenes. Don't know what a VP is expected to do in the states but here they are expected to move the organisation forward or they leave. How do we know VV isn't doing that but we can't see it because we aren't inside THFC.

I guarantee he isn't asking Lange how to run the football club. Edu isn't pulling up trees at Forest so maybe not as good as people think.