Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Mabspurs]

I wonder how TF feels about this. Hope a reporter asks him soon

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These cooked up stats stitch me up. There are a hundred ways to skin a cat... not to mention the well oiled phrase... lies, damned lies and statistics. Maybe you have not noticed.... the sole aim of a game of football is to get points from every game played - either one or three - and nothing else!! It's like people dissing the arse for scoring from so many set pieces; do they give a fudge looking down on everyone else from the top of the table?

Tell me... who do you prefer to be: bottom of this irrelevant table or in the 11th position occupied by the Wet Spammers.... and of course the equivalent league positions.

 

[parklane1]

Eze never wanted to come to us he always wanted scum he even rang the manager to avoid coming to us. how is that on TF or the club.

Its not, just haters have to hate,

 

[Lemonade Money]

Mate, it was reported widely before we started that he was an Arsenal man, of course he and his agent will say whatever brick makes sense for them.

Companies pay people a lot of money to sift through flimflam, and the fact that he was always going to make that call is both fudging unprofessional and a lack of experience on our side.

Arsenal men? So how did we sign Defoe, Bent, Bale, Kane, Aurier, Kulusevski, Solanke, Bissouma, Maddison?

 

[Raziel]

Arsenal men? So how did we sign Defoe, Bent, Bale, Kane, Aurier, Kulusevski, Solanke, Bissouma, Maddison?

Because none of them had a plan from the beginning of the negotiations to call Arsenal after wasting our fudging time to say hey, I'm over here.

Again, agents/people in the roles are supposed to know these things, when you interview people (at a certain level) your job is to understand are they really interested in your job (or just any job)

Said it above, it's both deeply unprofessional from the player and naïve at best, more likely failure of due diligence and process from Spurs. Eze's agents is CAA base, they have Maddison and Porro, again a conversation should have been had, "hey, we need to make sure this is legit, it won't embarrass the club and we aren't wasting time". I can tell you, in my industry a call would have been made to CAA to say fire someone, if you ever plan to do business with us again, lots of "fixing" would need to be done.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Because none of them had a plan from the beginning of the negotiations to call Arsenal after wasting our fudging time to say hey, I'm over here.

Again, agents/people in the roles are supposed to know these things, when you interview people (at a certain level) your job is to understand are they really interested in your job (or just any job)

Said it above, it's both deeply unprofessional from the player and naïve at best, more likely failure of due diligence and process from Spurs. Eze's agents is CAA base, they have Maddison and Porro, again a conversation should have been had, "hey, we need to make sure this is legit, it won't embarrass the club and we aren't wasting time". I can tell you, in my industry a call would have been made to CAA to say fire someone, if you ever plan to do business with us again, lots of "fixing" would need to be done.

Can the agent or Spurs really be at fault here though if the player had his heart set on Arsenal?
I know the family well and if there was ever a choice between the two clubs if all things were equal there would only be one winner.
The time when he was shown round our training ground in the January after Jose joined was probably the best time to get him as we were much better than Arsenal at that time.

This is one instance that i wouldn't blame the club as we offered a good package etc.
The 'bad optics'come from media stirrers saying 'player is keen to come' which was likely just 'the deal offered by Spurs is acceptable to both player and his agent if it goes through'

 

[billyiddo]

- "hey, we need to make sure this is legit, it won't embarrass the club and we aren't wasting time"

- "It is legit and you aren't wasting your time"

***
Eze joins Arsenal
***

-"hey - I thought you said this was legit?"

-"it was - then he got a better offer and had a change of heart"

 

[Bishop]

So on course to be exactly the same as last season.

My thing about when people speak about the attacking intent, setup etc of last year is that I never saw it myself, we passed it more or less the same as now except now feels like we try more crosses.

This is what baffles me. Last season, I complained about the aimless crosses to no one in particular and was told that this was simply Ange’s system. People even pointed me to training videos of Johnson repeatedly crossing without looking up, being instructed to “just put the ball into the space.” That was defended as part of the system. Yet now, it feels like the very same people are complaining about aimless crosses to no one in particular.

So what is it, do we dislike aimless crossing or not?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Because none of them had a plan from the beginning of the negotiations to call Arsenal after wasting our fudging time to say hey, I'm over here.

Again, agents/people in the roles are supposed to know these things, when you interview people (at a certain level) your job is to understand are they really interested in your job (or just any job)

Said it above, it's both deeply unprofessional from the player and naïve at best, more likely failure of due diligence and process from Spurs. Eze's agents is CAA base, they have Maddison and Porro, again a conversation should have been had, "hey, we need to make sure this is legit, it won't embarrass the club and we aren't wasting time". I can tell you, in my industry a call would have been made to CAA to say fire someone, if you ever plan to do business with us again, lots of "fixing" would need to be done.

In football we will need CAA and CAA will need us, when that is, who knows, but that day will come. Neither of us are shutting the door on each other. And given the nature of football (ie absolutely anything can go on)...there's zero point crying or throwing your authority around.

Eze held the ace card. How many cards we had already seen is largely irrelevant if he holds that card, while also accepting that people will keep their options open by keeping as many cards as close to their chest.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You don't think the first question our agent asked his agent, was 'would Eze be interested in joining Spurs'?
According to Eze, he did want our job, and nobody else was 'at the table' until he made a call.

'I was prepared to go to Tottenham' - New Arsenal man Eberechi Eze opens up on Spurs snub after dramatic transfer U-turn | Goal.com UK

Arsenal's Eberechi Eze has shared that he was ready to sign for the Gunners' rivals Tottenham Hotspur before a call with Mikel Arteta sealed his move to the red side of north London. The former Crystal Palace star had agreed a move to Spurs, but when Arsenal swooped for his signature at the last...

www.goal.com

Hence my point about us agreeing the fee faster perhaps meaning we signed him. It may have been that Arsenal came in for him anyway but they didn’t seem interested until Haivertz got injured.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate, it was reported widely before we started that he was an Arsenal man, of course he and his agent will say whatever brick makes sense for them.

Companies pay people a lot of money to sift through flimflam, and the fact that he was always going to make that call is both fudging unprofessional and a lack of experience on our side.

Would make way more sense for him to say that as he Is an Arsenal fan he wouldn’t have signed for Spurs.

 

[Finney Is Back]

These cooked up stats stitch me up. There are a hundred ways to skin a cat... not to mention the well oiled phrase... lies, damned lies and statistics. Maybe you have not noticed.... the sole aim of a game of football is to get points from every game played - either one or three - and nothing else!! It's like people dissing the arse for scoring from so many set pieces; do they give a fudge looking down on everyone else from the top of the table?

Tell me... who do you prefer to be: bottom of this irrelevant table or in the 11th position occupied by the Wet Spammers.... and of course the equivalent league positions.

He’s won a mere 1.35 of those per game so far….

 

[Finney Is Back]

Because none of them had a plan from the beginning of the negotiations to call Arsenal after wasting our fudging time to say hey, I'm over here.

Again, agents/people in the roles are supposed to know these things, when you interview people (at a certain level) your job is to understand are they really interested in your job (or just any job)

Said it above, it's both deeply unprofessional from the player and naïve at best, more likely failure of due diligence and process from Spurs. Eze's agents is CAA base, they have Maddison and Porro, again a conversation should have been had, "hey, we need to make sure this is legit, it won't embarrass the club and we aren't wasting time". I can tell you, in my industry a call would have been made to CAA to say fire someone, if you ever plan to do business with us again, lots of "fixing" would need to be done.

So weird that the player himself is saying he would’ve joined us and yet still an alternative narrative is created by fans on a message board.

 

[thfcsteff]

? the owner went gangster style on a kid who had a wife with pregnancy complications .. we do a lot of stupid brick as a club, that one isn't on us.

Whoever was behind the release clause -and the information subsequently imparted regarding it - fudged up somewhere. They obviously did not know the full scope of the clause, or else Marinakis could not have pulled that stunt.

 

[thfcsteff]

Eze never wanted to come to us he always wanted scum he even rang the manager to avoid coming to us. how is that on TF or the club.

For three years we repeatedly scoped this player. As I understand it, the annual unsettling of him tinkled Parrish off. We'd flirt but never actually look close to paying the money. This past summer he was on the list again and TF reportedly said he'd rather others as he was reportedly concerned about Eze's workrate off the ball. Truth be told, it bears out that this could well be true given how we are currently playing; Eze would've been wasted.
We blew opportunities to simply pay the asking price and move on, Parrish decided to play games back, and yes, as you said, once the goons made a formal offer at the release price, it was a done deal because Eze (if given a choice) was always going there.

 

[thfcsteff]

I actually think we’re in a perilous position now, and it’s quite possible things will get worse for Frank and us now. We are so underpowered in midfield and attack. Richarlison and Bentancur Havnt had any rotation. So much will depend on how Tel, Odobert, Gray and Bergvall step up.

So despite the training work ethic that Frank is instilling and the pragmatic approach to winning matches, we are in real danger of losing a very decent coach.

Frank is probably on a par with someone like Emery. He would rebuild somewhere else and with the right players and time - everyone would be proclaiming him as one of best. So personally I think it would be a shame to play snakes and ladders with managers again because some fans undermine Frank, because they wanted to be right about Postecoglou.

Respect for your opinion, I will say that final sentence? Speaking personally, it is wildly off-base. Anyone thinking like that would not just be an idiot, they'd be supporting an individual over the football club. I know absolutely no supporter who thinks like that.

 

[thfcsteff]

Mate, it was reported widely before we started that he was an Arsenal man, of course he and his agent will say whatever brick makes sense for them.

Companies pay people a lot of money to sift through flimflam, and the fact that he was always going to make that call is both fudging unprofessional and a lack of experience on our side.

For three years? You're actually suggesting that for three years, we were played by a player and his agency (one we have close ties with)? I think that is virtually impossible, unless we're talking about incompetance on an enormous scale. There is much to be seen in the Parrish/Levy relationship here, and Palace's anger over our continual sniffs around key players. We did it with Saha too remember. You'll say all clubs do it, but we looked hard at Eze for three windows at least and never paid the money. Ange wanted him, we wouldn't pay the price. That is a whole other debate, I accept that neogtiation is vital, however the Levy/Parrish relationship certainly got tangled into this. Add to that Frank not being totally sold on Eze when he arrived, and it ends up with where we were at - back in hard negotiations with a player we could've still possibly sealed (the ONLY possible reason not being Parrish wanting to shaft us if possible). I firmly, firmly believe that of Havertz had not been injured in training, Parrish would've been forced to sell to us as the goons would not have come in.

 

[thfcsteff]

Earlier we heard that results weren’t important as the style of play. Last game we played with some style and most ‘neutral’ Spurs fans applauded it. Yet those entrenched in not wanting Postecoglou sacked weren’t able to acknowledge the progress. Wanting instead to undermine the manager.

On the contrary, I think people acknowledged some green shoots in the first-half, but pointed out how in the second-half there was a reversion to caution.

 

[thfcsteff]

With respect, why would you take a risk when we were winning? Why would you implement a complicated reconfiguration of players late in the game when they are tired and more likely to make mistakes and the formation we were playing was actually performing reasonably well? I mean Sunderland were not tearing us open at that point. Also why would Bergvall be effective in the 2 at that stage of the game when he has just come on and not used to the tempo of the game? Did you see the throw in he fudged up when we were in a really good position to the left hand side of their box? He fudges up nearer our goal and we concede it will smash his confidence. And I think what you suggested would have ceded the initiative completely to Sunderland.

The ball slipped out of his hands in the 94th minute. I don't think it's comparable at all.
Frank himself said 2-0 and the game would've been done.
Bergvall in a two is playing a more natural game for him where he can get on the ball and carry from deeper positions.
You are (of course) entitled to your opinion. As you said, Sunderland were not especially potent. We ended up ceding initiative anyway.

What you are suggesting are not risks that need to be taken at that stage of the game when you are 1-0 up.

In order to answer properly, please rephrase the question. Are you asking what risks should NOT be taken? If so, the primary one would be to hedge defensive bets. IF he wanted to shut the game out, I'd have rather he brought Danso on and went 5 at the back. 5-4-1. IF the intention was to close the game out. If the intention was to try and win it whilst remaining somewhat secure, Palhinha is a great insurance in front of those defenders; you don't need two sitting mids like that IMO.

I suspect most managers would try to shore things up which is what Palhinha did in a way. I would go further to say a lot of managers might have brought on an extra CB. Which, in hindsight, probably would have stopped them scoring the equaliser they did where their striker found himself between our 2 CBs. But it was a sign that TF didn't want us to sit back, that he made a like for like replacement in the middle than bringing on the extra CB. Unfortunately it might have cost us 2 points. But I think it's easy to see a decision as wrong in hindsight.

See my answer above.
I can honestly tell you that both points I raised above were ones I said as the subs were being made and it was clear what was going on.

With respect Steff I think you are projecting a fan's point of view rather than what a manager would do. Which is fine of course because that what a forum is for. I just feel we are being a little unfair to TF. He's the one who actually has to make the tough decisions and in real time.

Mate, I am projecting no-one's POV other than my own. I am, by definition, a fan. I am not the manager. I know you feel exceptionally protective of Frank, to the extent that I personally think you won't easily accept any criticism of his decisions. They are tough decisions in real time, and such decisions tell us a lot about how someone is operating. To the best of my knowledge, that was the extent of what I was observing and offering my opinions on. You can call it 'hindsight' however I can assure you it wasn't. And the bottom line is tht some managers would, indeed, have done what he did, and some wouldn't.

 

[thfcsteff]

It was part of a post by Steff he blamed TF & the club for not getting Eze & the club for not getting MGW

I didn't blame Frank mate, I stated that as I understood it, Eze was never at the top of Frank's 'wanted' list.

 

[Junior19]

Not trying to hijack the TF-thread with Amorin-stuff, but I just watched Adam Clery's tube about why Amorin had to get sacked, and I feel so much of what he says about the tactical inflexibility in there could be copy & pasted into a "why is Thomas Frank struggling at Spurs"-video.

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