*** Tottenham Hotspur Vs Forest *** OMT

[Bedfordspurs]

That has to be truly one of the worst performances and results in the PL era - and it's not like we haven't had a few bad ones, even recently.

We had an extra two days over them in terms of prep time and the fact they played in Europe aay on Thursday.
We looked like the team that had played Europa on Thursday even though we had played in CL AT HOME TWO DAYS BEFOREHAND.
We got absolutely schooled by a Sean Dyche team. We have lost the odd game here or there to him in the past, but NEVER been absolutely scholed by him. Utterly embarrassing.

Poor attacking movements, Kudus hogging the ball and not releasing it when men were free was the most annoying. Subs that made little sense (how did Porro and Richarlison stay on?? Full-backs of Porro and Davis against their attackers??). Players jogging around as though THEY were 2 goals up and as though THEY had less time to prepare for the game than Forest.
If the players are not actively trying to get Frank sacked then that actually is EVEN MORE EMBARRASSING for all of us. Never mind how clueless they looked, how about the minamalism in terms of effort, ability to pass the ball or even ability to control one??

I don't see where we as a club go from here. I guess all the years when we could have actually acted like a big club that wants to reach for the top have come home to roost. Never mind how good/bad Frank is as a coach it says something that when we had secured CL via that EL win, he was the manager that we hired. Would another big club who achieved CL do such a thing?
This follows on from hiring Ange, who whilst we should all be grateful that he got the trophy monkey off our backs, we have to ask how he got the job given where we were as a club.

I think we have to accept that in the football world we are really not attractive to those who have lofty ambitions and so hence the pickle we are in (e.g. who the bleep would want to join us in January and play under Frank as things stand??)
Back to the 90s here we go. Sigh

I’ve only seen the highlights of yesterday and spoken to mates who went, today online. It was a bad bad watch

Also listened to the Totally Football pod where they absolutely nail the issue imo. To me it looks like none of the players have brought into Frank and I don’t know how he fixes that

 

[harr1984]

That has to be truly one of the worst performances and results in the PL era - and it's not like we haven't had a few bad ones, even recently.

We had an extra two days over them in terms of prep time and the fact they played in Europe aay on Thursday.
We looked like the team that had played Europa on Thursday even though we had played in CL AT HOME TWO DAYS BEFOREHAND.
We got absolutely schooled by a Sean Dyche team. We have lost the odd game here or there to him in the past, but NEVER been absolutely scholed by him. Utterly embarrassing.

Poor attacking movements, Kudus hogging the ball and not releasing it when men were free was the most annoying. Subs that made little sense (how did Porro and Richarlison stay on?? Full-backs of Porro and Davis against their attackers??). Players jogging around as though THEY were 2 goals up and as though THEY had less time to prepare for the game than Forest.
If the players are not actively trying to get Frank sacked then that actually is EVEN MORE EMBARRASSING for all of us. Never mind how clueless they looked, how about the minamalism in terms of effort, ability to pass the ball or even ability to control one??

I don't see where we as a club go from here. I guess all the years when we could have actually acted like a big club that wants to reach for the top have come home to roost. Never mind how good/bad Frank is as a coach it says something that when we had secured CL via that EL win, he was the manager that we hired. Would another big club who achieved CL do such a thing?
This follows on from hiring Ange, who whilst we should all be grateful that he got the trophy monkey off our backs, we have to ask how he got the job given where we were as a club.

I think we have to accept that in the football world we are really not attractive to those who have lofty ambitions and so hence the pickle we are in (e.g. who the bleep would want to join us in January and play under Frank as things stand??)
Back to the 90s here we go. Sigh

Agree. And let's be honest you can copy and paste this assessment of yesterday for quite a few games where regardless of what we have or haven't got personnel wise we should be doing better.

And it makes me laugh when people talk about casually just dropping a shed load of cash on Wharton or whoever - these are top players who if available will have bigger suitors right now. What top players are going to want to come here right now knowing

a) No Champions League football next season b) Our playing style is horrible to watch and doesn't look like the players are enjoying it or maybe even buying into it c) Our fans abuse players the way they have done

Some real work to be done here.....

 

[kb 1984]

I’ve only seen the highlights of yesterday and spoken to mates who went, today online. It was a bad bad watch

Also listened to the Totally Football pod where they absolutely nail the issue imo. To me it looks like none of the players have brought into Frank and I don’t know how he fixes that

Is it that or is Frank stuck between what he wants to do & what he thinks the fans want him to do. Is he trying to somehow please us. Just a thought If that is the issue he should go with what he wants.

 

[Mikey10]

I think we have to accept that in the football world we are really not attractive to those who have lofty ambitions and so hence the pickle we are in (e.g. who the bleep would want to join us in January and play under Frank as things stand??)
Back to the 90s here we go. Sigh

I’ve been banging this drum since Conte had his rant - but every time there is speculation about the manager there are plenty claiming that managers will be falling over themselves to take a job with us.

That may be true, but those managers are at Frank, Ange and Nuno level. We have been seriously mismanaged on the football side for a quarter of a century: that is the real reason that we find ourselves where we are.

I maintain that you could put Pep, prime Ferguson or prime Mourinho in charge of our current squad and they’d be doing well to achieve top 8.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Is it that or is Frank stuck between what he wants to do & what he thinks the fans want him to do. Is he trying to somehow please us. Just a thought If that is the issue he should go with what he wants.

I think it’s the players
They don’t look like there is any semblance of a plan and they all to a man look lost on the pitch

They hear a manager say he wants us to take risks…
They also hear that he doesn’t like shooting from distance….
Both of those are exactly how teams are beating us and it can’t then instil any confidence in the players heads that the manager knows what works

These aren’t stupid players or poor players. Most are international players for top countries who also saw us win a trophy last year and saw 300k fans celebrate that

What they are doing now (either by design or lack of) is so basic and rudimentary I don’t think they know how to execute it

 

[kb 1984]

I think it’s the players
They don’t look like there is any semblance of a plan and they all to a man look lost on the pitch

They hear a manager say he wants us to take risks…
They also hear that he doesn’t like shooting from distance….
Both of those are exactly how teams are beating us and it can’t then instil any confidence in the players heads that the manager knows what works

These aren’t stupid players or poor players. Most are international players for top countries who also saw us win a trophy last year and saw 300k fans celebrate that

What they are doing now (either by design or lack of) is so basic and rudimentary I don’t think they know how to execute it

Fair enough I know Brentford & Prague were poor but we did look like we had a plan. The players seemed like they knew what they doing. This morning what I watched of it was completely different. If as you say he has lost the players he'll be gone soon enough

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fair enough I know Brentford & Prague were poor but we did look like we had a plan. The players seemed like they knew what they doing. This morning what I watched of it was completely different. If as you say he has lost the players he'll be gone soon enough

Brentford were poor but we played well

Prague are a poor side as are a lot of the sides we have played in the CL.

But you can only beat what’s in front of you.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Teething problems I would hope to see at this stage, but this isn't teething problems. Because you would then be seeing a semblance of a style of play, it's just not all perfectly being executed yet. We've seen twenty odd games of Franks team and no one here can understand what we are trying to achieve with the football beyond throw it in the box - and if that is his genuine tactic then he's in trouble, it's not going to work here. And to compound the lack of football, our defending is terrible. Right now the 'Give him time' comments are just coming across as blind faith, there has been next to nothing being shown for what we are giving time for.

Agree we backed the wrong horse, I think we dropped the ball not going for Glasner. But we are where we are now, I hope he can turn it around. Can't shake this nagging feeling that the players aren't really buying into him though, hope I'm wrong....

I don't think it's quite blind faith. 20 games is not enough for any manager. I'd even say that I'm not shocked we aren't seeing any cohesion at the moment. He took over a team that quite possibly underachieved in the league last season more than any side has underachieved in the PL era. It's a brickshow and he has a few key injuries.

It's been dreadful, really dreadful aside from a few of the early games. However, I think to be fair to Frank, you have to give him more time to implement his ideas and get the players he wants. I say that not through any great faith I have in him or, even if he gets it right, any great desire to watch his brand of football. I say that as we have to be fair to the guy and because we've tried the impatient approach before and it's a dangerous cycle that ultimately doesn't really deliver success for us.

Frank is a good football manager. He proved that at Brentford. Whether that style can be successful at a bigger club or whether he can cope with the pressure and scrutiny that days like yesterday (and Arsenal, Chelsea, Bournemouth, Fulham, Wolves, Bodo, Monaco) bring is another question. But he does deserve time unless he drags us into a relegation scrap.

Expectation is another thing I guess. I still think of us as a top 6 club as we spent 20 years there. We're really not. Looking at our squad, we're 8th-12th probably. Things go right, we could get top 6 but we just aren't there by right anymore. I don't think our expectations have been adjusted accordingly.

 

[harr1984]

I don't think it's quite blind faith. 20 games is not enough for any manager. I'd even say that I'm not shocked we aren't seeing any cohesion at the moment. He took over a team that quite possibly underachieved in the league last season more than any side has underachieved in the PL era. It's a brickshow and he has a few key injuries.

It's been dreadful, really dreadful aside from a few of the early games. However, I think to be fair to Frank, you have to give him more time to implement his ideas and get the players he wants. I say that not through any great faith I have in him or, even if he gets it right, any great desire to watch his brand of football. I say that as we have to be fair to the guy and because we've tried the impatient approach before and it's a dangerous cycle that ultimately doesn't really deliver success for us.

Frank is a good football manager. He proved that at Brentford. Whether that style can be successful at a bigger club or whether he can cope with the pressure and scrutiny that days like yesterday (and Arsenal, Chelsea, Bournemouth, Fulham, Wolves, Bodo, Monaco) bring is another question. But he does deserve time unless he drags us into a relegation scrap.

Expectation is another thing I guess. I still think of us as a top 6 club as we spent 20 years there. We're really not. Looking at our squad, we're 8th-12th probably. Things go right, we could get top 6 but we just aren't there by right anymore. I don't think our expectations have been adjusted accordingly.

Yeah blind faith was a deliberate exaggeration to highlight the question of, what are we giving time to? At some point Frank has to show his personality and style with this team and what has been shown isnt good enough.

I'm not advocating getting rid of him, just that he needs to improve things and I'd suggest quickly knowing our fans. I certainly dont have our squad as low as 12th, id say 7th is fair. What I would say is that a lot of teams aren't hampered with European football like we are so they have an advantage that way. But as I've said previously, our league position isn't really the concern for me - it's more about answering the question of what are we trying to do when we have the football.....