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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

DTA said:
You are obviously not aware of history. because you missed out absolutely crucial elements even in for an abridged version.

Try again.
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Both sides have a legitimate claim to call the area their homeland. However the original claim from GB was that British colonialism messed up the area when it was already a very complicated situation with a complicated history.
 
DTA said:
Do a bit of reading on this history from non social media sources, come back and let’s have a grown up discussion so we can expand on your new found knowledge a bit more.
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Obviously you have more knowledge that me, and of course my knowledge comes from social media especially from knomeinis instagram and twitter. He’s twerking on his last post check it out.

But yes let’s have this enlightenment, I am fascinated to know how I’m way off track. Would be good to know how we can both agree that Islamists have no place in any civilisation whatsoever. No ifs or buts, especially if you yourself enjoy the fruits of living in a democratic society where you have freedoms of self expression.

I’ll happily concede to your knowledge. I’m not being sarcastic in my last point either. Even though you have not really said much but say where I’ve got it all wrong.
 
DTA said:
I’m very sure that the Israelis would not go for that, as the Palestinian population would soon be more than the Jewish population in that state.
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Yeah and we only have to look at Lebanon and what happened there to teach us in the civilised world what happens when the Islamists decimate democracy.
 
Latest YouGov MRP projection. Reform have improved the position significantly since the last one where it looked like Labour could cling on to power. If it went down like this it would probably be unfeasable for anyone other than Farage to be PM:
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Silly McSilly Face said:
Latest YouGov MRP projection. Reform have improved the position significantly since the last one where it looked like Labour could cling on to power. If it went down like this it would probably be unfeasable for anyone other than Farage to be PM:
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Unfortunately this is what happens when one travel of thought dominates the narrative. The previous governments have done nothing in addressing the public’s opinions and divides. So the vacuum with be filled with another form of stupidity.

It will be interesting to see if reform actually win it. All politicians chime into the sentiment before getting into power and then realise that their crockpot peddling won’t come into play. It’s been a quarter century of back peddling and unviable promises.
 
Gazza said:
Unfortunately this is what happens when one travel of thought dominates the narrative. The previous governments have done nothing in addressing the public’s opinions and divides. So the vacuum with be filled with another form of stupidity.

It will be interesting to see if reform actually win it. All politicians chime into the sentiment before getting into power and then realise that their crockpot peddling won’t come into play. It’s been a quarter century of back peddling and unviable promises.
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I’m not sure how much polls can be believed but yeah, Reform could win if we don’t tackle immigration.’
 
Jurgen the German said:
I’m not sure how much polls can be believed but yeah, Reform could win if we don’t tackle immigration.’
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The YouGov MRP polls are very reliable and accurate to within a small margin of error. Albeit it is still a snapshot in time (i.e. its "if a GE were held now" - well it won't be held until 2029) - although i am not sure the established parties have an answer for this as their fundamental problem is that all of them other than the Greens have been in power and therefore they are ALL part of the problem.

their current attack line of "Reform don't have the answer to your problems" will not work as Farage's answer is a simple: "well we can hardly do any worse than all of those lot".

Delivery against the wishes of the British public is the only way to counter Reform and this current government are failing woefully at this...

As to Labour and the other parties, i don't think they have a choice but to lean into it. Because its the clear no. 1 priority for a majority of the public.
 
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Rorschach said:
Exactly this. The more Labour leans into this, the more Reform will benefit from the blanket coverage it is getting. Net migration numbers have nearly halved since 2023 as it turns out.
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There was a spike in net migration during Covid as there was a huge influx of people returning to the UK that had been stuck abroad during lockdowns including many EU citizens that came to the UK to get their settled status prior to the transition period ending. There was also a mass foreign recruitment drive to replace EU citizens leaving the UK post Brexit.

Net migration has simply returned from close to 1 million a year to its previous (and still ridiculous and unsustainable) 400-500K a year.

As to Labour and other parties (even Lib Dems are now talking about need to tackle immigration) don't think they have a choice but to lean into it as it is the no. 1 priority issue for a large chunk of the public now. Its a bit like our EU status. There was growing euroscepticism across the 90s and into the 2000s and 2010. By time the major parties decided to tackle the issue it was too late.

Immigration was a growing issue of public concern going back to 2010 (when the imfamous Gordon Brown "bigoted woman" occurred when he was confronted about the issue). Nothing has been done about it and Brexit was a lot based on people's concerns on it. Now we have full control over our immigration policy the issue has become even more of a focus on policy of our own politocians.

Attempts by labour, lib dem and tories to talk tough on issue are falling on deaf ears and it is too late to "move the issue on"
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
There was a spike in net migration during Covid as there was a huge influx of people returning to the UK that had been stuck abroad during lockdowns including many EU citizens that came to the UK to get their settled status prior to the transition period ending. There was also a mass foreign recruitment drive to replace EU citizens leaving the UK post Brexit.

Net migration has simply returned from close to 1 million a year to its previous (and still ridiculous and unsustainable) 400-500K a year.
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It started ramping up dramatically for non-EU nationals as a result of the introduction of the post-Brexit immigration system, but is trending down now. But more importantly, it is a counter-narrative to reform's racist nativist bile, if Labour chooses to take control of the narrative rather than let Froghorn Faghorn drive it. As I have said before, Starmer is not a good politician.
 
Rorschach said:
Exactly this. The more Labour leans into this, the more Reform will benefit from the blanket coverage it is getting. Net migration numbers have nearly halved since 2023 as it turns out.
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Newsnight put together a compilation of the number of times Ed Davey mentioned "Farage" in his speech to the LibDem conference - it was a lot. Watching that I was thinking how it was just great publicity for Reform (although I don't believe most voters - of any politicial hue - pay much attentiont to the conferences).
My hope is that between now and the next election Reform will implode and/or Farage will get bored and work a way out (probably the two are the same thing). Labour really need to get their act together, do their own thing (whether you believe that's right or wrong), get better at communicating what they are doing, and not pander to the Right.
 
Rorschach said:
It started ramping up dramatically for non-EU nationals as a result of the introduction of the post-Brexit immigration system, but is trending down now. But more importantly, it is a counter-narrative to reform's racist nativist bile, if Labour chooses to take control of the narrative rather than let Froghorn Faghorn drive it. As I have said before, Starmer is not a good politician.
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Labour are instinctively uncomfortable and divided on the issue though. The two child benefit cap was largely introduced off the back of genuine public anger that a chav or immigrant could bang out 5 or 6 kids and end up being handed a 6 bedroom mansion and £80K a year for sitting on their a** all day while muggins like me earn less (but still too much to qualify for even the non -UC child benefit.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Newsnight put together a compilation of the number of times Ed Davey mentioned "Farage" in his speech to the LibDem conference - it was a lot. Watching that I was thinking how it was just great publicity for Reform (although I don't believe most voters - of any politicial hue - pay much attentiont to the conferences).
My hope is that between now and the next election Reform will implode and/or Farage will get bored and work a way out (probably the two are the same thing). Labour really need to get their act together, do their own thing (whether you believe that's right or wrong), get better at communicating what they are doing, and not pander to the Right.
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It reminds me of the US and Trump in a way, and not a good way.
"There is no such thing as bad publicity"
 
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