Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[DTA]

This was the more thoughtful proposals based on ethnic grounds, before the British-French carve-up:

So you would wipe out the Azeri population then?

One of the under commented on reasons of the division of the Ottoman Empire is the securing of the oil in their former lands.

The Uk after securing a deal for oil with Persia/Iran which was akin to rape… tried to do the same with the Ottoman Empire in now northern Iraq but the ottomans already had a deal with Germany.

There is so many problems with this map, but you have no idea about the area that you are talking about i really don’t know where to start.

We can go one by one if you like.

1. The Azeri’s

 

[DTA]

A two state solution is a lovely dream. In the real world, a Palestine run by Israel/the US is the only workable one.

So a one state solution it is then.

Of course the Palestinians would have equal rights with the Jewish population, right?

 

[DTA]

Will never happen as long as Iran is puppeteering. I’ve seen videos of Arabs and mainly Palestinians that are genuinely thankful for living in Israel. Hamas has hijacked Palestine and their people are suffering for it. Israel keep saying to return the hostages and they will end the conflict. I don’t know what their intentions are, but Hamas cannot exist.

You can not be serious? Israel bombed Qatar to kill the people they are “trying to negotiate peace with… and release the hostages”

 

[DTA]

Again they created that mess. Tehran used to be called the Paris of the east until the Islamists took over. Now it’s gone backwards with its regime and laws (take a wild guess which one).

That country is oil rich and could be a world superpower if it was free and traded its assets and resources in the open market. The general public would live infinitely better under a democratic nation rather than what ever toss they have currently in place.

And why did the Islamists take over?

Do you even know a bit of history of the area?

 

[DTA]

Wasn't even true colonialism that resulted in Britain controlling Palestine. The Ottoman Empire attacked Russia and declared alignment with Germany and Austria-Hungary. The defeat of the central powers necessitated the invasion and occupation of their territories and the British ended up taking and holding Palestine as a military necessity not for the purpose of colonisation.

Nope, that’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what happened

 

[Gazza]

You don't think the masses of people on each side of the divide are equally innocent in this?

That's not me putting words in mouth, I'm just genuinely interested in what the alternative view is

it wasn’t meant to come across as sarcastic, I’m agreeing with you.

 

[Gazza]

And why did the Islamists take over?

Do you even know a bit of history of the area?

Yes I do know. I’m very aware of the history.

I won’t bore everyone but in a nutshell

Shah, lavish lifestyle, general population not doing so well, shahs sons, merica, oil deal, one killed, vacuum khomeni… Islamism.

Islamists should never be in charge of anything. Period.

 

[Gazza]

You can not be serious? Israel bombed Qatar to kill the people they are “trying to negotiate peace with… and release the hostages”

Where did you read that one? I’ve read reports that they killed members of Hamas in Qatar.

You don’t negotiate with terrorist organisations.

They could have simply released the hostages a long time ago and called Israel’s bluff if that was the case.

 

[Gazza]

Nope, that’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what happened

Go on please educate

 

[DTA]

Where did you read that one? I’ve read reports that they killed members of Hamas in Qatar.

You don’t negotiate with terrorist organisations.

They could have simply released the hostages a long time ago and called Israel’s bluff if that was the case.

Except that’s what they do and have been doing. Negociating with Hamas representatives.

The people they tried to kill (they didn’t kill them) were literally the people they had negotiated with previously and were due to negotiate with again.

This is not controversial, look it up.

 

[DTA]

Yes I do know. I’m very aware of the history.

I won’t bore everyone but in a nutshell

Shah, lavish lifestyle, general population not doing so well, shahs sons, merica, oil deal, one killed, vacuum khomeni… Islamism.

Islamists should never be in charge of anything. Period.

You are obviously not aware of history. because you missed out absolutely crucial elements even in for an abridged version.

Try again.

 

[Gazza]

You are obviously not aware of history. because you missed out absolutely crucial elements even in for an abridged version.

Try again.

Sorry historian it was early and a nutshell, I think it was always going to be the case. Obviously I have zero knowledge about it even in my nutshell. Please enlighten me

 

[scaramanga]

So a one state solution it is then.

Of course the Palestinians would have equal rights with the Jewish population, right?

Absolutely.

 

[scaramanga]

I’m in San Sebastián at the moment and have noticed hundreds of Palestine flags along with a protest. Same sitch in Bilbao. I guess it hits them more close to home because the Basques want independence themselves from Spain.

One of my favourite cities in the world, it's beautiful there.

Only downside is that they do like a protest or two.

If you get a chance, do the bull running there. It's essential some people dressed up as bulls, firing fireworks at the runners

 

[thfcsteff]

Sorry historian it was early and a nutshell, I think it was always going to be the case. Obviously I have zero knowledge about it even in my nutshell. Please enlighten me

Out of interest, would you ever admit not knowing something?
That's not a criticism by the way, it's a genuine question.
One thing struck me several years ago; I will die knowing less than I ever thought possible at that age...because for so long I thought I knew more than I ever did.
Sometimes it is very, very empowering and emancipating to admit not knowing something; that gives you an option to either walk away and remain ignorant of the matter, or spend a little time taking on knowledge of whatever said-matter might be. Again, please know I use the word 'ignorant' as an adjective in the purest sense. I am ignorant of many things in this world. We all are.

 

[Gazza]

Out of interest, would you ever admit not knowing something?
That's not a criticism by the way, it's a genuine question.
One thing struck me several years ago; I will die knowing less than I ever thought possible at that age...because for so long I thought I knew more than I ever did.
Sometimes it is very, very empowering and emancipating to admit not knowing something; that gives you an option to either walk away and remain ignorant of the matter, or spend a little time taking on knowledge of whatever said-matter might be. Again, please know I use the word 'ignorant' as an adjective in the purest sense. I am ignorant of many things in this world. We all are.

I apologised in the thread earlier. I’ve also asked form some more information.

But in the same token when you get narky replies then be prepared to give it and take it.

I’m not scared to have a view even if it rubs people up the wrong way or they don’t agree with. Better than always trying to be politically correct or be pandering to people’s emotions if they can’t deal with an opinion.

You won’t get along with everyone all the time. Especially on a forum.

 

[thfcsteff]

I apologised in the thread earlier. I’ve also asked form some more information.

Mate. I'm not criticizing I'm observing and genuinely interested. FWIW the post you're referring to didn't come across as an apology, it read as very sarcastic and actually quite angry. Again, not criticizing, just mentioning that in case you really were apologising (not that I think there was anything to apologise for really) and that your intentions were positive.

 

[Gazza]

Mate. I'm not criticizing I'm observing and genuinely interested. FWIW the post you're referring to didn't come across as an apology, it read as very sarcastic and actually quite angry. Again, not criticizing, just mentioning that in case you really were apologising (not that I think there was anything to apologise for really) and that your intentions were positive.

I didn’t think were were being critical and honestly this forum or peoples opinions don’t rile me. It’s all a bit of fun and quite interesting how polarised people are.

It’s how you read things unfortunately you cannot always account for tones.

 

[DTA]

Sorry historian it was early and a nutshell, I think it was always going to be the case. Obviously I have zero knowledge about it even in my nutshell. Please enlighten me

Do a bit of reading on this history from non social media sources, come back and let’s have a grown up discussion so we can expand on your new found knowledge a bit more.

 

[DTA]

Absolutely.

I’m very sure that the Israelis would not go for that, as the Palestinian population would soon be more than the Jewish population in that state.