Ange in or out?

[Muttley]

I always had our 1-0 win against Utd on 16 Feb as the exit from the injury part of our season. It was the first time that I saw a semblance of a decent squad and a bench full of good players. It was also just after the 2 domestic cup exits.

Since then we have played 11 PL games and 6 EL games. We picked up 8 league points.

What I find incredibly frustrating is that, whilst the priority is the EL, the so called "second string" elevens have played together twice as much as the EL "first team". Also, this squad has now been together for 2 years and we should be able to put different elevens out who all know the tactical system inside out. It should at least be cohesive in it's basic structure. It clearly isn't which tells me the players are not buying in.

It also makes me wonder whether the backup players are good enough. Yesterday, we had about 7 or 8 players who either are 1st team or have a strong case to be. There is clearly a big drop off from VDV to Davies, but you can't really say that about any other position. We played an opposition that have a cup final only 6 days away. They had no problem only making a couple of changes, one enforced, and their players were professional and got the job done.

 

[lurker of old]

Was at the game yesterday, and yet again saw the huge flaw in Ange's approach, epitomised by Palace's first goal. Spence was way up in the opposition's half. We lose possession and BAM, they are attacking the space where he ought to be. Bentacur had to try as best he could but defending without defenders is madness, and is - for me, with my unsophisticated football brain - the key reason we lose game after game after game. Ange can play more pragmatically, as we saw against Frankfurt away, but he sticks with his "Devil may care/throw everyone forward" approach in the league, loss after loss after loss. How can any Spurs fan want him to stay????

 

[DubSpur]

Another contrast - Ruben Amorim …..

“Everybody is focused on the final. The final is not the biggest thing in our football club. We need to change a lot of things. If we don’t change the way we play and perform and feel this urgency of winning every game, we should not play in the Champions League. We should just stay in the Premier League and learn how to be competitive one week at a time.”

Utd have been winning trophies even when they've been brick, we couldn't win one when were great, totally different situations. Not a big deal for Utd if they go this season without winning one while they rebuild. We need a trophy to get the monkey off our back.

 

[DubSpur]

Was at the game yesterday, and yet again saw the huge flaw in Ange's approach, epitomised by Palace's first goal. Spence was way up in the opposition's half. We lose possession and BAM, they are attacking the space where he ought to be. Bentacur had to try as best he could but defending without defenders is madness, and is - for me, with my unsophisticated football brain - the key reason we lose game after game after game. Ange can play more pragmatically, as we saw against Frankfurt away, but he sticks with his "Devil may care/throw everyone forward" approach in the league, loss after loss after loss. How can any Spurs fan want him to stay????

Bentancur and Sarr spent more time at LB than Spence did. It's ridiculous. It's basically swapping two players positions so they end up where they are least effective.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I always had our 1-0 win against Utd on 16 Feb as the exit from the injury part of our season. It was the first time that I saw a semblance of a decent squad and a bench full of good players. It was also just after the 2 domestic cup exits.

Since then we have played 11 PL games and 6 EL games. We picked up 8 league points.

What I find incredibly frustrating is that, whilst the priority is the EL, the so called "second string" elevens have played together twice as much as the EL "first team". Also, this squad has now been together for 2 years and we should be able to put different elevens out who all know the tactical system inside out. It should at least be cohesive in it's basic structure. It clearly isn't which tells me the players are not buying in.

It also makes me wonder whether the backup players are good enough. Yesterday, we had about 7 or 8 players who either are 1st team or have a strong case to be. There is clearly a big drop off from VDV to Davies, but you can't really say that about any other position. We played an opposition that have a cup final only 6 days away. They had no problem only making a couple of changes, one enforced, and their players were professional and got the job done.

We are making a hell of a lot of changes game after game
And our players are on interestsed in one thing…. That cup and the bonus and CL that comes with it

 

[Bishop]

We are making a hell of a lot of changes game after game
And our players are on interestsed in one thing…. That cup and the bonus and CL that comes with it

We are poor with or without the changes. What I don't understand is why he's unable to adjust his strategy to go along with the changes. No one would begrudge an altered playing style we'd all get the context. Instead his sticks with the same system that doesn't work. It's an incredible display of arrogance in his behalf. I wonder if he thinks it's puts him in good stead by showing hes unwilling to compromise even as the house falls down all around him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We are poor with or without the changes. What I don't understand is why he's unable to adjust his strategy to go along with the changes. No one would begrudge an altered playing style we'd all get the context. Instead his sticks with the same system that doesn't work. It's an incredible display of arrogance in his behalf. I wonder if he thinks it's puts him in good stead by showing hes unwilling to compromise even as the house falls down all around him.

We are
But the players aren’t trying either

 

[billyiddo]

We are poor with or without the changes. What I don't understand is why he's unable to adjust his strategy to go along with the changes. No one would begrudge an altered playing style we'd all get the context. Instead his sticks with the same system that doesn't work. It's an incredible display of arrogance in his behalf. I wonder if he thinks it's puts him in good stead by showing hes unwilling to compromise even as the house falls down all around him.

I get the idea behind not changing tactics in principle as you want to be able to swap your players in/out of the team and have everyone up to speed - so that's not an issue for me. The issue is that the tactics demonstratably do not work.

 

[Muttley]

We are making a hell of a lot of changes game after game
And our players are on interestsed in one thing…. That cup and the bonus and CL that comes with it

I get your point but think it is deeper. We have about 8 or 9 players who have been given their 1st team shirts. They've not really fought for them. The only player I see doing that is Porro. Then we have players like Biss who weren't nurtured to full form when they needed that. They were cast aside and left out in the cold. I believe we genuinely have a bunch of disenfranchised players. Not with the club, but with Ange. I'm not surprised either, as if he's giving them the same spin as we're getting then they are also seeing straight through him. They are just playing the waiting game and looking forward to a new manager coming in........and those bonuses are a lovely distraction.

It's a really tough place we find ourselves in.

 

[GGyid]

I get the idea behind not changing tactics in principle as you want to be able to swap your players in/out of the team and have everyone up to speed - so that's not an issue for me. The issue is that the tactics demonstratably do not work.

This has been blindingly obvious for 18 months.
I couldn't be bothered to go yesterday, I'm absolutely fed up with this manager. He's either clueless or so arrogant he can't accept any blame. And with that comes excuses, excuses, excuses.
He's toast.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I get your point but think it is deeper. We have about 8 or 9 players who have been given their 1st team shirts. They've not really fought for them. The only player I see doing that is Porro. Then we have players like Biss who weren't nurtured to full form when they needed that. They were cast aside and left out in the cold. I believe we genuinely have a bunch of disenfranchised players. Not with the club, but with Ange. I'm not surprised either, as if he's giving them the same spin as we're getting then they are also seeing straight through him. They are just playing the waiting game and looking forward to a new manager coming in........and those bonuses are a lovely distraction.

It's a really tough place we find ourselves in.

It will all be done after the final
We are either back in the CL or not
The new manager will be fine with what he gets then

 

[Legohamster]

We are
But the players aren’t trying either

But claim they still back him

 

[DeanoAustin]

We are
But the players aren’t trying either

See, I don’t believe that.

I play over 35s. It’s a social thing really and to keep some way fit. But lads will kill each other in training to win let alone the actual games. It’s the same for my kid at u13 level.

I cannot believe that professionals who have dedicated their lives to making it would go out on a pitch, in front of 60,000 paying fans and the world on TV, and not have the professional pride to try.

 

[DubSpur]

See, I don’t believe that.

I play over 35s. It’s a social thing really and to keep some way fit. But lads will kill each other in training to win let alone the actual games. It’s the same for my kid at u13 level.

I cannot believe that professionals who have dedicated their lives to making it would go out on a pitch, in front of 60,000 paying fans and the world on TV, and not have the professional pride to try.

I don't believe they're not trying, but not having belief in the system can mean that 1-2% drop off that can make a huge difference at this level.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But claim they still back him

They back him
To win the final
But none of them give a damn about the league

 

[Legohamster]

They back him
To win the final
But none of them give a damn about the league

Sounds like they back personal success over the managers ideas

 

[Bedfordspurs]

See, I don’t believe that.

I play over 35s. It’s a social thing really and to keep some way fit. But lads will kill each other in training to win let alone the actual games. It’s the same for my kid at u13 level.

I cannot believe that professionals who have dedicated their lives to making it would go out on a pitch, in front of 60,000 paying fans and the world on TV, and not have the professional pride to try.

Honestly…. That’s like my mate who has been saying he played to a good level (local level getting £15 a game) saying it wouldn’t be acceptable to them

Professionals do this all the time
They hold back because they can
They know they need/want to be in that final
They even talk about it when they retire
I a senior guy at work and I pick and choose when I put my efforts in

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sounds like they back personal success over the managers ideas

Course they do
Footballers are selfish
It’s how they get to the top
But they know he is the guy who potentially won them that trophy

 

[Legohamster]

See, I don’t believe that.

I play over 35s. It’s a social thing really and to keep some way fit. But lads will kill each other in training to win let alone the actual games. It’s the same for my kid at u13 level.

I cannot believe that professionals who have dedicated their lives to making it would go out on a pitch, in front of 60,000 paying fans and the world on TV, and not have the professional pride to try.

I think they are fearful so they look worse than they are.

They know if they make a mistake they other side will be straight in at our goal because there is no cover as our full back is playing as a CF

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Utd have been winning trophies even when they've been brick, we couldn't win one when were great, totally different situations. Not a big deal for Utd if they go this season without winning one while they rebuild. We need a trophy to get the monkey off our back.

It's a big deal for United in the finance department