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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 63 34.6%

  • Out

    Votes: 119 65.4%
  • Total voters
    182
Baleforce said:
“History is worth sacrificing league form for.”

Is it fudge.

WALOB

90/91 was a fudging disaster, how do you have the best MF and CF of their generation and finish 10th?
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I think the difference at the moment is that we lack a stand out performer of the Lineker/Gazza type. A quick look at the stats shows that they each had 19 goals that year. Basically, they dragged a below average group to the Cup Final. It was not, imho opinion, a situation were we were not doing well in the League because we prioritised the cup. We were just not that good and had a fortunate draw in the cup. And that is why the victory in the semi-final was amazing -- we were huge underdogs against an Arsenal team that won the League and Gazza, barely fit, did the business.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Poch's team was founded on the defence. His peak seasons, our goals against column was:
15/16 = 35 A (joint best in the division)
16/17 = 26 A (best in the division by quite a few goals)
17/18 = 36 A (3rd best in the division)
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Since Postecoglou took charge we’ve let in 118 PL goals, only West Ham and Wolves have conceded more times over those 73 games.

From the start of Pochettino’s tenure it took until the sixth match of his forth season (120 matches) until we let in 118 PL goals.

Whilst with Redknapp it took until the end of his 3rd season, 103 games, until that side conceded 118 PL goals (the 8th best DEF record for that period)

And during Jol’s tenure it took 98 games to concede 118 PL goals (the 7th tightest DEF in PL for that period).
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
Poch's team was founded on the defence. His peak seasons, our goals against column was:
15/16 = 35 A (joint best in the division)
16/17 = 26 A (best in the division by quite a few goals)
17/18 = 36 A (3rd best in the division)
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How many of those games were played without Vertonghen and Alderweirald together? Missing Walker, Rose and Lloris for any of those periods?

Feels like I have to had a caveat to every post I make these days…no, I’m not saying Ange’s system is perfect and that he’s a better manager than Pochettino.
 
tommysvr said:
How many of those games were played without Vertonghen and Alderweirald together? Missing Walker, Rose and Lloris for any of those periods?

Feels like I have to had a caveat to every post I make these days…no, I’m not saying Ange’s system is perfect and that he’s a better manager than Pochettino.
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16/17 Rose was put from January and he alternated between Trippier and Walker quite a bit.

I think it’s quite clear,injuries have had an impact on us this season, the debate is how much of a mitigating factor it is and that really comes down to where people stand on the abilities of our current manager
 
tommysvr said:
How many of those games were played without Vertonghen and Alderweirald together? Missing Walker, Rose and Lloris for any of those periods?

Feels like I have to had a caveat to every post I make these days…no, I’m not saying Ange’s system is perfect and that he’s a better manager than Pochettino.
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you just have to go back to mourinho and conte days where they were forced to play super defensive with the quality of players we have.
 
tommysvr said:
How many of those games were played without Vertonghen and Alderweirald together? Missing Walker, Rose and Lloris for any of those periods?

Feels like I have to had a caveat to every post I make these days…no, I’m not saying Ange’s system is perfect and that he’s a better manager than Pochettino.
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We haven't looked solid defensively even with our first choice defence available. We've conceded 14 goals in our last 6 matches, for example. Romero, VDV, Porro and Udogie all look completely clueless.

As to Pochettino there were significant periods where he had to do without key defenders. For example, there was a run in 2016/17 where he was hit by key injuries:

Emirates Marketing Project 2 v 2 Spurs (defence: Vorm, Wimmer, Alderweireld, Dier)
Sunderland 0 v 0 Spurs (Vorm, Rose, Dier, Alderweireld, Walker)
Spurs 1 v 0 Middlesbrough (Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Dier, Davies)
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
We haven't looked solid defensively even with our first choice defence available. We've conceded 14 goals in our last 6 matches, for example. Romero, VDV, Porro and Udogie all look completely clueless.

As to Pochettino there were significant periods where he had to do without key defenders. For example, there was a run in 2016/17 where he was hit by key injuries:

Emirates Marketing Project 2 v 2 Spurs (defence: Vorm, Wimmer, Alderweireld, Dier)
Sunderland 0 v 0 Spurs (Vorm, Rose, Dier, Alderweireld, Walker)
Spurs 1 v 0 Middlesbrough (Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Dier, Davies)
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For balance of argument our first choice back 5 were played together 8 times at the beginning of the season in the league. We conceded 1/0/1/1/0/3/1/1. That's 8 goals in 8 games (October 27th being last of those games). Since then the injury crisis hit, and if you excluded the infamous Chelsea game where VDV and Romero were rushed back that back 5 have not played together since in a league game.

The past six games you reference, they might have been 'available' but we have only played our first choice back 5 in two of those games - of which were Frankfurt away and Bode at home where we conceded a total of 1 goal. We haven't played our first choice back 5 much this season in the league, that is one of the issues we have....
 
www.football.london

Ange Postecoglou explains why he does not talk to his players much one-to-one

The Australian is set to join Tottenham Hotspur from Celtic and is a manager with a reputation for not speaking much to his players
www.football.london www.football.london

One thing people have said about Postecoglou over the years is that while his players would run through walls for him, the Aussie maintains a distance from them and it's something he admits is very deliberate.

"If you talk to all of the players that I've coached over the years they'll probably be consistent in saying that they've never had a conversation of longer than a minute with me in the whole time. It's just me as a person. I'm not a great social sort of beast in life in general, in terms of particularly my professional environment," he explained.

"I do keep a distance from the players and it takes a while for the players to get used to that for the most part. I understand that, they're human beings and they want that connection and that feedback. They want to know that you're engaged with them and my way of keeping my distance can be a little bit disconcerting.

I hope Ange has changed his mind about how he treats the players, these days they like need a good personal talk to instil some personal confidence. Or does he delegate all that to his assistant coaches? If so, it explains how he can be so unaware of the physical state and readiness of the players.
 
harr1984 said:
For balance of argument our first choice back 5 were played together 8 times at the beginning of the season in the league. We conceded 1/0/1/1/0/3/1/1. That's 8 goals in 8 games (October 27th being last of those games). Since then the injury crisis hit, and if you excluded the infamous Chelsea game where VDV and Romero were rushed back that back 5 have not played together since in a league game.

The past six games you reference, they might have been 'available' but we have only played our first choice back 5 in two of those games - of which were Frankfurt away and Bode at home where we conceded a total of 1 goal. We haven't played our first choice back 5 much this season in the league, that is one of the issues we have....
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Goal posts constantly being moved with Ange: "injuries mean he can't rotate - he doesnt have a deep enough squad" to "too much rotation is the issue".

Beginning of the season we did not look solid and constantly made defensive mistakes leading to goals and dropped points. Leaving Vardy unmarked back post to drop points v Leicester. One ball splitting our ridiculous line at Saudi Sportswashing Machine for their winner - just after we got back to 1-1. All over the place 2nd half away to Brighton and conceding 3 goals. Awful performance away to Palace with first choice team where we lost 1-0 could have been 4 or 5. Those are just what I can remember.

First choice defence or no first choice defence - we've always been wide open.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Goal posts constantly being moved with Ange: "injuries mean he can't rotate - he doesnt have a deep enough squad" to "too much rotation is the issue".

Beginning of the season we did not look solid and constantly made defensive mistakes leading to goals and dropped points. Leaving Vardy unmarked back post to drop points v Leicester. One ball splitting our ridiculous line at Saudi Sportswashing Machine for their winner - just after we got back to 1-1. All over the place 2nd half away to Brighton and conceding 3 goals. Awful performance away to Palace with first choice team where we lost 1-0 could have been 4 or 5. Those are just what I can remember.

First choice defence or no first choice defence - we've always been wide open.
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Your post referenced 'first choice defence'. I've given you the facts for that first choice defence. You decide to select stats for past 6 games, of which said defence have played twice and conceded one goal. 'First choice defence' has barely featured for 25% of games this season which has an obvious impact for stability. The rest of the games the back 5 has been forever changing, that again does not help stability.

This doesn't mean you can't be critical of Ange, of the system and whatever else but you can also acknowledge the difficulties faced for balance....
 
NYSpur said:
I think the difference at the moment is that we lack a stand out performer of the Lineker/Gazza type. A quick look at the stats shows that they each had 19 goals that year. Basically, they dragged a below average group to the Cup Final. It was not, imho opinion, a situation were we were not doing well in the League because we prioritised the cup. We were just not that good and had a fortunate draw in the cup. And that is why the victory in the semi-final was amazing -- we were huge underdogs against an Arsenal team that won the League and Gazza, barely fit, did the business.
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Didn't ghat average group finish 3rd in the league the season prior?
 
Lilbaz said:
Didn't ghat average group finish 3rd in the league the season prior?
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I think it was the off-field issues that were causing distractions. At one point there seemed a real possibility of the club being wound up.

It was pretty much the same team 90/91 as 89/90. From memory only Justin Edinburgh replaced Mitchell Thomas/Terry Fenwick at LB, otherwise it was the same team.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think it was the off-field issues that were causing distractions. At one point there seemed a real possibility of the club being wound up.

It was pretty much the same team 90/91 as 89/90. From memory only Justin Edinburgh replaced Mitchell Thomas/Terry Fenwick at LB, otherwise it was the same team.
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Sugar had bought us. Little chance we were going under.
It might have been the rift between him and el tel.
 
Lilbaz said:
Sugar had bought us. Little chance we were going under.
It might have been the rift between him and el tel.
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Sugar bought us AFTER the end of the 1990/91 season.
Even during the Gazza-dominated FA Cup semi-final our future was uncertain; hence why a win for us was so huge..
 
You know I’d prefer now that we were solid in defence than scored the most, I’d prefer we held control over matches as the opposite is reckless and cavalier which is fun to watch but less likely to be successful.
 
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