Danny Rose

[billyiddo]

Don't mind him talking about his well-being, and hope he has had the support he needed, but I think I could've lived without the "I'll end up being fined again" line, seems very unnecessary to rake that up.

Sounds like something said in jest to me...

 

[scaramanga]

And I suppose if the consequence of that for Danny Rose is to further strain his capacity to cope, possibly sending him into another depression that requires medication that's fine? THAT sort of behavior sends a message to all (and potential) Spurs players that the club has ZERO concern for their mental health and well-being and that if they are not able to 'man up' then they will be humiliated and abused.

I disagree. Assuming the club has offered help (and clearly has in getting him in front of a specialist) then the message it sends is that the club will help you but if you act like a clam and try to force a move you'll be stuck in the stiffs.

This isn't the first time he's acted like this

 

[harr1984]

See above.

As I already said, it's not relevant because sacking Rose is the last thing we should be doing. Having him train alone and dropping him from the squad is the correct response to him repeatedly being a taco in front of the press.

Jesus the guy has been going through depression and all you can do is try and decipher and not pick every little piece of wording and crucify him. He hasn’t said anything out of turn, if he had the media would have mass producing stories about him playing up. Instead it’s about him speaking up about his depression as it should be.....

 

[scaramanga]

Jesus the guy has been going through depression and all you can do is try and decipher and not pick every little piece of wording and crucify him. He hasn’t said anything out of turn, if he had the media would have mass producing stories about him playing up. Instead it’s about him speaking up about his depression as it should be.....

This is nothing to do with his condition (unless being a taco that can't shut up in front of the press is a medical condition) and everything to do with him lacking being completely ungrateful and entirely lacking in grace towards our club.

 

[billyiddo]

Have you even read the interview? Because i struggle to see where he has spoken ill of the club or whatever, think you've gone off the deep end here

 

[scaramanga]

Have you even read the interview? Because i struggle to see where he has spoken ill of the club or whatever, think you've gone off the deep end here

He's obviously being cautious so as to avoid losing more of the money he's so very fond of but his meaning is clear...

He talks about how he's grateful to England for getting him away from Tottenham

Full of praise to England and the manager but none for the club or his day to day manager. His point is very clear in the omission of Spurs in that comment.

He makes it clear he feels it's the club's fault he was on pain killers, the club's fault he didn't have an operation, etc. And claims "it all stemmed from [that]"

Makes it clear he's avoiding direct criticism so that he doesn't get fined again. He's either making light of the situation last time (in which case he's failed to learn what an utter clam he was being) or he's being serious as I suspect he is.

 

[billyiddo]

He's obviously being cautious so as to avoid losing more of the money he's so very fond of but his meaning is clear...

He talks about how he's grateful to England for getting him away from Tottenham

Full of praise to England and the manager but none for the club or his day to day manager. His point is very clear in the omission of Spurs in that comment.

He makes it clear he feels it's the club's fault he was on pain killers, the club's fault he didn't have an operation, etc. And claims "it all stemmed from [that]"

Makes it clear he's avoiding direct criticism so that he doesn't get fined again. He's either making light of the situation last time (in which case he's failed to learn what an utter clam he was being) or he's being serious as I suspect he is.

He's on England duty hence talking from the perspective of an England player - the rest is just borderline scouse level paranoia

 

[harr1984]

He's obviously being cautious so as to avoid losing more of the money he's so very fond of but his meaning is clear...

He talks about how he's grateful to England for getting him away from Tottenham

Full of praise to England and the manager but none for the club or his day to day manager. His point is very clear in the omission of Spurs in that comment.

He makes it clear he feels it's the club's fault he was on pain killers, the club's fault he didn't have an operation, etc. And claims "it all stemmed from [that]"

Makes it clear he's avoiding direct criticism so that he doesn't get fined again. He's either making light of the situation last time (in which case he's failed to learn what an utter clam he was being) or he's being serious as I suspect he is.

Think you just don’t like the guy and looking for any excuse to kick the guy when he’s down. You’re making a meal out of nothing....

 

[scaramanga]

Think you just don’t like the guy and looking for any excuse to kick the guy when he’s down. You’re making a meal out of nothing....

I only dislike him because he keeps acting like a clam. If he'd stop talking the club down there'd be no need to dislike him.

 

[thfcsteff]

My issue with the younger Rose was that he always had the physical ability but was just mentally deficient when it came to playing as a left back. Over time, he picked up the mental side of his game and improved hugely.

What's painfully predictable here is that he's shown that he's as mentally incapable of being a pro off the field now as he was on the field when he was a youngster.

I think (sadly) what is clear is he always hd depression in his make-up. I remember when he first signed the stories of homesickness were rife. He nearly left twice in the early days. These things do (and can) manifest themselves over time. I am genuinely not sure what the motivation behind the interview was though. The timing is unhelpful for everyone. This was a passage of time when DR could've continued with what he is dealing with quietly and with the appropriate support systems around him. He could've rebuilt himself further. Had he wished to share this information, it would have been better all round to do so after the World Cup and after his near-future was sorted.

Instead, he spoke on the eve of the World Cup, he has opened himself up to countless judgements/pressure and he has planted seeds of doubt in potential future employers and his current employees.

I have seen people talk about his bravery in talking about it. I have also seen people universally say that anyone criticizing him "doesn't understand mental health" or is "disgraceful" (paraphrasing a bit there!)...I take a different view. I think that whoever is working with Danny Rose has a responsibility to protect them, especially from themselves. If you knew your client was an alcoholic, you would move mountains to get them rehabbed. You would protect them from media, you would keep the pressure off them.

There is the possibility his reps were blind-sided. I can see that, especially if he is as erratic as he appears to currently be. But I think it is simply tragic that once again, he is free-stepping in the media and once again, he is placing himself in a spotlight when he does not fully appear to be in control of his situations, his health, his conditions.

Timing is everything.

And to make this as clear as I can - I have deep, deep sympathy for anyone who suffers with mental illness (as he apparently does) and I wish them all the luck and support they need. Danny Rose has my support, but I wish those around him were able to support him. And that sometimes means not letting someone spill everything inside to the press.

 

[thfcsteff]

Totally agree, Steff. Having experienced a bout of depression myself 15 or so years ago I'm all too familiar with it.

My point was that he might well have advisers telling him not to do interviews but he might not listen to them. People often don't want to listen to the right advice/aren't capable of making the right decisions when they are depressed, and there's probably not too much any advisers can do if he disregards their advice. He might have listened to his family, but he obviously hasn't shared it with them; the fact that he chose to do so through a newspaper probably indicates that he's still not thinking straight.

Everyone is different, but being off meds after such a relatively short time seems odd to me. Having him in front of a (seemingly) sympathetic journalist is certainly a bad thing at this stage of his recovery in most ways - with the proviso that it is good to see another public figure opening up to suffering from depression. At this stage of World Cup preparations, if I was England manager I'd be banning all journalists from anywhere near the camp unless they were talking to the managerial team, so if there's any fault to be attributed it probably lies there imo.

Anyhow, I'm hoping Danny continues to recover, plays brilliantly in the WC and is with us for the foreseeable future.

Agreed mate, he does appear to have gone "off-script" but as his rep, knowing he might go "off-script', you'd take the gamble and speak to a few in the press office and perhaps engineer a situation where he does not given the platform to speak (this can be done without alienating him in a media day - journos could be instructed to simply discuss topics with him that are pre-planned)...there are many ways.

I think Southgate did the right thing TBH, where I think he has been ;et down is he quite obviously did not know the extent of these issues and as such, he has been blind-sided. Every other player interaction on open media day was great, fun and building good foundations with the press for the tournament. I am sure if Southgate had known the extent of issues Rose has dealt with, then he'd have found a way to protect him. Frankly, I suspect that if he could, he'd send Rose home for rest and further treatment. Alas that is not a remote possibility now. I hope this does not cause him further pain.

 

[scaramanga]

I think (sadly) what is clear is he always hd depression in his make-up. I remember when he first signed the stories of homesickness were rife. He nearly left twice in the early days. These things do (and can) manifest themselves over time. I am genuinely not sure what the motivation behind the interview was though. The timing is unhelpful for everyone. This was a passage of time when DR could've continued with what he is dealing with quietly and with the appropriate support systems around him. He could've rebuilt himself further. Had he wished to share this information, it would have been better all round to do so after the World Cup and after his near-future was sorted.

Instead, he spoke on the eve of the World Cup, he has opened himself up to countless judgements/pressure and he has planted seeds of doubt in potential future employers and his current employees.

I have seen people talk about his bravery in talking about it. I have also seen people universally say that anyone criticizing him "doesn't understand mental health" or is "disgraceful" (paraphrasing a bit there!)...I take a different view. I think that whoever is working with Danny Rose has a responsibility to protect them, especially from themselves. If you knew your client was an alcoholic, you would move mountains to get them rehabbed. You would protect them from media, you would keep the pressure off them.

There is the possibility his reps were blind-sided. I can see that, especially if he is as erratic as he appears to currently be. But I think it is simply tragic that once again, he is free-stepping in the media and once again, he is placing himself in a spotlight when he does not fully appear to be in control of his situations, his health, his conditions.

Timing is everything.

And to make this as clear as I can - I have deep, deep sympathy for anyone who suffers with mental illness (as he apparently does) and I wish them all the luck and support they need. Danny Rose has my support, but I wish those around him were able to support him. And that sometimes means not letting someone spill everything inside to the press.

I think it's a very simple exercise to talk about his depression without sounding bitter towards the club and as if he blames us.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think it's a very simple exercise to talk about his depression without sounding bitter towards the club and as if he blames us.

I firmly, FIRMLY, believe he is not being helped as much as he could. Some have said that he is obviously impulsive and liable to go off-script. I agree with this. That being said, if we can all deduce that, why are his reps still allowing him to speak freely?

I have to also, once again, tackle the concept that he is being "brave" speaking about his mental health. Of course it is tough, and of course it is a horrible thing and of course any public figure speaking of their struggles can be inspirational and helpful to millions of fellow-sufferers. But timing is everything. And I simply do not believe this is helpful timing at all.

I outlined earlier that I believe those around him could've created a protective environment for him to still operate within the camp on media day and not spill this story out. Furthermore, I should add that IF he is to publicly discuss depression, if the aim is to educate, then knowing how media works, it is important to have your story delivered cohesively. What I read seemed very 'stream-of-conscious' and frankly, the words of a man still suffering. I simply fail to see how that is helpful. I hope upon hope I'm wrong, but it does seem to me that there is something more to the timing of this, and that in all ways, Rose is not being helped by anyone.

 

[thfcsteff]

He's on England duty hence talking from the perspective of an England player - the rest is just borderline scouse level paranoia

Mate. Do you think it was a good idea to allow him to speak freely about his depression at this time? I am interested in your perspective as to why? I feel very sorry for him TBH as I think is very much alone in all this...

 

[billyiddo]

I don't think you can blame someone for sounding negative about a time where they were in a dark place and suffering with depression tbh - especially in his case where a lot of it stems from being injuried and missing games, training/recovering alone - all Tottenham related stuff and i can totally understand why breaking that negative routine, like with the England stuff he mentions, would have been seen as a bit of an escape for him - don't think we should take it as an attack on the club.

Rose is shooting from the hip about real things here and i think it's terrible really that people choose to focus on something as trivial as "he may have said something negative about the club" when he's talking about clinical depression, racisim and attempted murder...

 

[scaramanga]

I don't think you can blame someone for sounding negative about a time where they were in a dark place and suffering with depression tbh - especially in his case where a lot of it stems from being injuried and missing games, training/recovering alone - all Tottenham related stuff and i can totally understand why breaking that negative routine, like with the England stuff he mentiins, would have been seen as s biy of an escape for him - don't think we shpuld take it as an atrack on the club

Ignoring all the other stuff, don't you find it a little strange that he didn't recognise the club's efforts to rehabilitate and care for him?

When I spoke at my wedding I wanted to thank my parents and did. But I also thanked my in-laws because that's how people be not-clams.

 

[harr1984]

Mate. Do you think it was a good idea to allow him to speak freely about his depression at this time? I am interested in your perspective as to why? I feel very sorry for him TBH as I think is very much alone in all this...

So you claim it was some sort of masterstroke for Poch to do his book and reveal very intimate things about himself and players at the club so publicly yet Rose was ill advised to speak out like he did? He hasn’t said anything out of place and who cares about when he does it? Maybe it’s been in his mind for a while and wanted to get it off his chest before the World Cup....

 

[billyiddo]

Ignoring all the other stuff, don't you find it a little strange that he didn't recognise the club's efforts to rehabilitate and care for him?

When I spoke at my wedding I wanted to thank my parents and did. But I also thanked my in-laws because that's how people be not-clams.

I don't really think you can compare it to a wedding speech tbh as this isn't Roses only opportunity to publicly speak on the matter and he wasn't addressing all relative parties directly, he was giving an interview as an England player and talking openly for the first time about his depression and the tough time he's had whether he thanks those at the club in this interview or another is really quite trivial (see my edited post above)

 

[90291Spur]

I disagree. Assuming the club has offered help (and clearly has in getting him in front of a specialist) then the message it sends is that the club will help you but if you act like a clam and try to force a move you'll be stuck in the stiffs.

This isn't the first time he's acted like this

We'l have to agree to disagree then. I'm just glad my only 'interaction' with you is on this forum.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't think you can blame someone for sounding negative about a time where they were in a dark place and suffering with depression tbh - especially in his case where a lot of it stems from being injuried and missing games, training/recovering alone - all Tottenham related stuff and i can totally understand why breaking that negative routine, like with the England stuff he mentions, would have been seen as a bit of an escape for him - don't think we should take it as an attack on the club.

Rose is shooting from the hip about real things here and i think it's terrible really that people choose to focus on something as trivial as "he may have said something negative about the club" when he's talking about clinical depression, racisim and attempted murder...

OK.
I believe he was ill-advised in not being protected from giving this interview.