Why are we struggling to score this season?

[elltrev]

I agree that it's effective when combined with a unified pressing system - however, I am deeply intrigued by the difference between us and Liverpool in this regard. We both prioritize pressing and direct, quick transitions - the forms differ somewhat (Liverpool use a medium block when pressing, while we press right up to the opposition goalie), but the philosophy remains the same. Yet, Liverpool are evidently consistently creating chances of far higher quality than the ones we're managing to create, while only slightly suffering in terms of the volume of chances created when compared to our own approach.

So, what are they doing differently? And is their approach more sustainable in the long-run than our own approach is?

Well for one thing I think they just phave better intricate players than us, and they play with loads of them at the same time - think Lallana, Mane, Coutinho and Firmino are all better than any of our players at playing in tight spaces and breaking down a packed defence.

I also think that we're not pressing as much / well as we did last year, in part because we're constantly trying to pass it out short from the back.

 

[Robspur12]

Liverpool get the chances from pushing more men forward and get plenty of second and third ball, like their goal vs Everton's and quite a few of Origis for example

They alos have a lot of goals come from rebounds and deflections to a pool player which we simply haven't as we dont throw bodies into the area to capitalise on it

We are how we're more stable IMO across the board and don't get sucker punched as much in comparison as we have a better defensive set up (we wouldnt have conceded like the did vs West Ham IMO)

Pool look prettier but what the actually achieve will come down to how they defend in key matches. For me they are the same as they were a few season back when they had the gerrrad slip

And to Answer your last question their approach is only sustainable if they outscore teams

Great post mate, not only do pool get lots of bodies in the box, they do it at pace attempting to overwhelm teams early on. After this initial attack in several matches,they have conceded goals which makes me think that they may tire after their initial on slaught. Perhaps the way to beat them is to let them have the ball in the first half, soak up their pressure then get behind them in the second half when they tire.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Great post mate, not only do pool get lots of bodies in the box, they do it at pace attempting to overwhelm teams early on. After this initial attack in several matches,they have conceded goals which makes me think that they may tire after their initial on slaught. Perhaps the way to beat them is to let them have the ball in the first half, soak up their pressure then get behind them in the second half when they tire.

Burnley let them have the ball knowing that if you stop them scoring they have no plan B

It was sane against us where they and be a soft pen but didn't make Hugo make any worldies saves despite having the ball a lot

We ended up with more shots and IMO did enough to nick it in the end

 

[glorygloryeze]

Burnley let them have the ball knowing that if you stop them scoring they have no plan B

It was sane against us where they and be a soft pen but didn't make Hugo make any worldies saves despite having the ball a lot

We ended up with more shots and IMO did enough to nick it in the end

Your memory is going mate: we had Vorm in goal, and he DID have a worldy performance that day; have your forgotten the number of times Mane and others got in behind and Vorm played sweeper keeper to the fullest??
It was a soft pen they scored from granted, but remember the luck we got when Mane scored but it was (luckily for us) ruled offside? (Could have been given)
If they'd gone 2-0 up, i'm not sure we'd have had enough to come back and draw tbh

However, i agree that we did turn the screw in the second half and in the end could have even nicked it.

But not going 2-0 down was what saved us - along with Vorm's great sweeper-keeping - make no mistake about it

 

[braineclipse]

Well for one thing I think they just phave better intricate players than us, and they play with loads of them at the same time - think Lallana, Mane, Coutinho and Firmino are all better than any of our players at playing in tight spaces and breaking down a packed defence.

I also think that we're not pressing as much / well as we did last year, in part because we're constantly trying to pass it out short from the back.

The difference in central midfield in particular it's striking.

Sent from my FRD-L09 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Your memory is going mate: we had Vorm in goal, and he DID have a worldy performance that day; have your forgotten the number of times Mane and others got in behind and Vorm played sweeper keeper to the fullest??
It was a soft pen they scored from granted, but remember the luck we got when Mane scored but it was (luckily for us) ruled offside? (Could have been given)
If they'd gone 2-0 up, i'm not sure we'd have had enough to come back and draw tbh

However, i agree that we did turn the screw in the second half and in the end could have even nicked it.

But not going 2-0 down was what saved us - along with Vorm's great sweeper-keeping - make no mistake about it

It was a while ago. Wa that the game when Vorm saved one on the line with his foot? I would say that its the keepers job to do that bit it was a a great performance (it was also my 40th birthday party so I was watching at home whilst sorting out loads of stuff too)

@braineclipse The difference in central midfield in particular it's striking. - I personally wouldn't swap any of ours for there unless you mean the attacking players? I see central midfield as where Henderson plays and now Wilnaldum (who was an an attacking player at Saudi Sportswashing Machine). I wouldn't have either in our first 11 even though there both very good players

 

[AdamB]

Credit goes to blogger @11tegen11 (his/her excellent site is here: http://11tegen11.net/). Methodology for calculating the quality of chances is derived from this approach - http://11tegen11.net/2014/02/10/what-is-expg/ .

So, what does everyone think? According to this, we create the most chances in the league on average - these are also the worst-quality chances in the league, on average. Basically, long shots, pot shots, floated crosses falling to players in difficult positions, etcetera. It's interesting to note the contrast with both our rivals, Arsenal (who create the highest-quality chances in the league, on average) and a doctrinally-similar side in Liverpool (who, despite using the same gegenpressing philosophy we do, are still managing to create relatively high-quality chances at relatively frequent intervals).

Very interesting chart and seems to fit how I would have said that we generally compare against the 4 teams above us in the league. We have lots of chances but a very low proportion of them are clear cut chances. Personally I put that down to our players in the three roles behind the CF not being good enough - I dont see that Eriksen, Lamela, Son or Sissoko would get in any of their starting line-ups (and not on the bench of some of them). The only player we have in those roles who might make one or two of those teams is Dele but he might not get in say Man C or Cheatski's teams.

Whilst our more realistic signings in Jan/summer transfer windows are more natural cover for Alderweireld, Dembele and Kane, getting a genuine high quality player for those three positions has to be the main priority, though we have a low probability of succeeding given we'll need to identify the next Mahrez/Payet/Coutinho as more proven players in a big league will be out of our reach financially

 

[braineclipse]

@braineclipse The difference in central midfield in particular it's striking. - I personally wouldn't swap any of ours for there unless you mean the attacking players? I see central midfield as where Henderson plays and now Wilnaldum (who was an an attacking player at Saudi Sportswashing Machine). I wouldn't have either in our first 11 even though there both very good players

Henderson, Wijnaldum and Lallana play in a trio for them.

Overall not better than our lads, but on the ball, creatively and in making good attacking runs I think they're better. Dembele and Wanyama/Dier are more solid defensively. But our shortcomings creatively in central deep midfield are well illustrated by the impact even of an unproven youngster like Winks. (Not that I don't rate Winks).

 

[AdamB]

Henderson, Wijnaldum and Lallana play in a trio for them.

Overall not better than our lads, but on the ball, creatively and in making good attacking runs I think they're better. Dembele and Wanyama/Dier are more solid defensively. But our shortcomings creatively in central deep midfield are well illustrated by the impact even of an unproven youngster like Winks. (Not that I don't rate Winks).

The trio shouldn't really work as they're too attacking, however it does work because Wijnalrum and Lallana can run all day and get forward to support their attackers yet still get back.

Our problem when we've played 3 CMs is that wanyama, Dembele and Winks all play well behind the ball, rather than getting up alongside (and past) the CF. It means that we're left with two CBs and three CMs who aren't threatening the box, as well as two attacking full backs

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Henderson, Wijnaldum and Lallana play in a trio for them.

Overall not better than our lads, but on the ball, creatively and in making good attacking runs I think they're better. Dembele and Wanyama/Dier are more solid defensively. But our shortcomings creatively in central deep midfield are well illustrated by the impact even of an unproven youngster like Winks. (Not that I don't rate Winks).

I'd agree their better on the ball but they can't defend for brick hence why they leak like a sieve

 

[braineclipse]

The trio shouldn't really work as they're too attacking, however it does work because Wijnalrum and Lallana can run all day and get forward to support their attackers yet still get back.

Our problem when we've played 3 CMs is that wanyama, Dembele and Winks all play well behind the ball, rather than getting up alongside (and past) the CF. It means that we're left with two CBs and three CMs who aren't threatening the box, as well as two attacking full backs

Also because their front three works really hard and defends well from the front. Like our front players.

We've hardly played with that trio. Eriksen and Alli box to box worked quite well earlier this season though.

In our standard system with Dembele and Wanyama we see the attacking shortcomings quite clearly. But the defensive solidity goes some way to make up for it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Also because their front three works really hard and defends well from the front. Like our front players.

We've hardly played with that trio. Eriksen and Alli box to box worked quite well earlier this season though.

In our standard system with Dembele and Wanyama we see the attacking shortcomings quite clearly. But the defensive solidity goes some way to make up for it.

Wtf is going on in this game

 

[Lemonade Money]

Where's the why are we scoring so many goals thread?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Well for one thing I think they just phave better intricate players than us, and they play with loads of them at the same time - think Lallana, Mane, Coutinho and Firmino are all better than any of our players at playing in tight spaces and breaking down a packed defence.

I also think that we're not pressing as much / well as we did last year, in part because we're constantly trying to pass it out short from the back.

Fair enough, but I disagree - Alli, Eriksen and Lamela are, to my mind, as capable of intricate play as Lallana, Coutinho and Firminho are. When on form, of course - maybe they just aren't in form. However, apparently this trend carries over from last season, and we can't say we were particularly out-of-form then.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Im prssseeed and Kim fokjna a naked dance

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yepe makkeeeee

 

[Aldo]

Tbh, your phone tends to make most of your posts look like that

 

[Cochise]

I'm with the guys talking up the Liverpool midfield. They are all capable of attacking and defending but also have a very mobile three in front to work with. We have two fairly uncreative players playing balls into the feet of retreating players moving away from goal. Liverpool seem to have their front players moving towards goal or at least on the half turn, something that Lamela and Alli did really well last year.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Where's the why are we scoring so many goals thread?

You mean you haven't you started it yet?

 

[SteveAWOL]