Can't prove it your way either.
You just have to choose the measure and apply it as best you can. That's what we're doing now and it's way better than what we had.
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
You just have to choose the measure and apply it as best you can. That's what we're doing now and it's way better than what we had.
That's only the case if you give weighting to the on field decision.
I don't think any weight at all should be given to the on field decision and the VAR refs should be free to make the most accurate decision they can.
Robbo
Les Ferdinand
I so agree with this.
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Then the ref should be sent to the screen
The ref should be got rid of. His decision from a screen in a stadium will be less accurate than that of a referee in a studio set up for VAR.
Lots of thoughts in here, I think the questions are
- Can 19 points out of 17 games really be excused?
- Do we really believe we are getting the most out of the squad anymore (there was a time I truly believed we were overachieving, when we win now, it's by 1 or 2 goal margins with a front line of Son, Kane, Lucas, Dele, Eriksen, Lamela? not soo much)
- What is going to change (most important)
The real worry is Poch is his mentor, Bielsa, highly rated, a career of almosts .. making sides surprisingly compete until the very last where they inevitably fail.
I know people think Poch has earned a bad run, but not sure that is how business works, BMJ, Harry, Poch (unless he can turn this around) all topped out, were they good, right person, right time = yes, could they do more? = didn't seem so.
I don't see any immediate decisions, but this form is not sustainable.
- Can 19 points out of 17 games really be excused?
- Do we really believe we are getting the most out of the squad anymore (there was a time I truly believed we were overachieving, when we win now, it's by 1 or 2 goal margins with a front line of Son, Kane, Lucas, Dele, Eriksen, Lamela? not soo much)
- What is going to change (most important)
The real worry is Poch is his mentor, Bielsa, highly rated, a career of almosts .. making sides surprisingly compete until the very last where they inevitably fail.
I know people think Poch has earned a bad run, but not sure that is how business works, BMJ, Harry, Poch (unless he can turn this around) all topped out, were they good, right person, right time = yes, could they do more? = didn't seem so.
I don't see any immediate decisions, but this form is not sustainable.
Gazza
Nick Barmby
Thanks for posting a balanced view
StephenH
David Ginola
I don't want him gone, I want him sorted and focused.
If he and the players can sort this current malaise out, then I'm more than happy for him to continue.
If he is like you saying struggling with managing the squad i.e. getting unwanted players out, he needs help from Levy with maybe a transfer expert/department bought in. I find it unbelievable there is not one but even if there is it needs reorganising because it is failing Pochettino by not getting the players out he wants, Whether I agree with him or not
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nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Poch is not doing a good job right now.
We know he has it in him, and I dont think there is anyone here not desperate for him to get back to his best.
As it stands though, he isnt doing what he should be doing. He seems distracted, he is allowing the squad to be unsettled, he is making weird decisions in selections/tactics/substitutions etc and he is not getting the best out of his squad.
There are signs things are getting better, but they really shouldnt have been as bad, IMO.
Last season I made all the excuses for him, and stand by that, given the hand he had to play.
This season? Its simply not the same. We should be doing much better than we are.
I think there is pressure on him to get things moving again, build some positive momentum, and Im not convinced right now he has his head in the game.
Not that I think he should be sacked or anything like it - but the criticism/pressure/narrative building right now is very much of his doing/due to his performance and attitude.
That needs to change.
I saw a lot of positives in the Leicester performance, and I really hope thats the beginning of the upswing, but Id be lying if I said I had any particular faith right now that that is the case.
We know he has it in him, and I dont think there is anyone here not desperate for him to get back to his best.
As it stands though, he isnt doing what he should be doing. He seems distracted, he is allowing the squad to be unsettled, he is making weird decisions in selections/tactics/substitutions etc and he is not getting the best out of his squad.
There are signs things are getting better, but they really shouldnt have been as bad, IMO.
Last season I made all the excuses for him, and stand by that, given the hand he had to play.
This season? Its simply not the same. We should be doing much better than we are.
I think there is pressure on him to get things moving again, build some positive momentum, and Im not convinced right now he has his head in the game.
Not that I think he should be sacked or anything like it - but the criticism/pressure/narrative building right now is very much of his doing/due to his performance and attitude.
That needs to change.
I saw a lot of positives in the Leicester performance, and I really hope thats the beginning of the upswing, but Id be lying if I said I had any particular faith right now that that is the case.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Must do better, IMO, if you're going to chalk goals off based on evidence you know is probably faulty. The least I'd expect to see given available technology is error bars based on the known limitations of the system. That will amount to a pixel width which it could be said either yields an overlap or nay. It still leaves the question of when the ball was played in relation to the image being used, but I could accept that as a nearly-working system. What annoys me as a scientist is the pretence that there isn't still inherent uncertainty.
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I totally agree. But not only that, lots of the first team players have been around for ages too:
Lloris: 7 years
Aurier: 2 years (and we know has wanted to leave)
Toby: 4 years (and we know has wanted to leave)
Vertonghen: 7 years
Rose: 9 years (and we know has wanted to leave)
Winks: 3 years
Sissoko: 3 years
Eriksen: 6 years (and we know has wanted to leave)
Alli: 4 years
Son: 4 years
Kane: 5 years
And in that time we haven't won a single trophy, despite finishing 2nd in league, being CL and League Cup finalists, and FA Cup semi-finalists. I can understand some of the players struggling to feel 100% inspired at this point in their time at the club, and I can understand that frustrating Poch. I think we're just experiencing the inevitable consequence of this group being together for too long without winning anything, caused by the timing of building our new stadium.
(Compare us to Liverpool, where after 3 seasons of finishing 4th at best, Klopp suddenly got a massive injection of cash to take them to the next level. Instead Poch, having got us to 2nd after 3 seasons, had to play at Wembley and see his squad go backwards for 2 years).
So based on the above, personally I don't think Poch leaving at any point will change things, because we'll still be lumbered with a large group of long-serving and jaded players. Sadly, maybe at some point we'll need to see a big overhaul in players, regardless of what happens with the manager.
In the meantime, even if Poch himself hasn't always appeared 100% committed and humble recently, I think he deserves all of our forgiveness, commitment and support, given the circumstances and everything he's achieved to date.
Not winning a trophy is a massive thing, no matter how much many like to claim finishing top 4 is the main priority and want to highlight what a great achievement getting to the CL final was. Players want medals to look back on, and when you have so many players who have been a good few years now going through Pochs rigorous training pre season after pre season, week after week and eventually they will think is it all worth it? It might be a more subconscious thing, but when you've spent that many years putting your body on the line and having nothing to show for it you will find they are no longer going to push themselves that bit further, and Pochs' voice isnt going to be quite as authoritative. It isnt a coincidence that our intensity has been dropping for a while now, and that there seems to be more and more disruptions in the dressing room (Pochs constant whinging isnt going to help that either).
A larger player exodus and recruitment drive needs to happen as it seems in places we have become sterile (even taking into the fact Sess and Lo Celso havent really had an opportunity yet), and if that doesnt work then the sad reality is Poch has taken us as far as he can.
But look, we are three points off third having had the toughest opening three away fixtures any team has faced so I think its far from panic station time....
A larger player exodus and recruitment drive needs to happen as it seems in places we have become sterile (even taking into the fact Sess and Lo Celso havent really had an opportunity yet), and if that doesnt work then the sad reality is Poch has taken us as far as he can.
But look, we are three points off third having had the toughest opening three away fixtures any team has faced so I think its far from panic station time....
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
Some real over analysis going on here imo.
Just get back to 4231 constantly and we will start dominating football matches again and winning at a canter.
Just get back to 4231 constantly and we will start dominating football matches again and winning at a canter.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
I speak as someone who has never really warmed to Levy, whilst acknowledging the good he has done for the club in difficult competitive circumstances, so I'm biased, like it or not, but I reckon the only point the chairman would see in your transfer expert/department would be if it were one that could reliably promise to find valuable players on the cheap. I don't think he's likely to be interested in more input that just keeps giving him the "wrong" answer as far as he's concerned, ie that business constantly trumping everything else is not necessarily the path to sporting success. Everything about our recent rise (and plateau, and whatever comes next) has depended on his personal relationship with Poch, IMO, and I think that's set to continue.
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Haha you might be right! But it's not just this season's performances/results that are leading to these sorts of analyses. It's the performances/results all year, and some of the stuff that Poch has been saying about the squad being the least settled ever.
And we played 4-2-3-1 against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, with poor results.
StephenH
David Ginola
I can see both sides to this. Money wins every time sadly.
I believe the right balance is possible between cost and quality.
Liverpool has done some good work here. Sadly though we are still some way behind them financial clout wise.
I think we have done OK this window but Poch doent seems to agree from the looks of thing......maybe he should just look at the mess at Old Trafford and count himself lucky and just get his head down and look after the now.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
For the purposes of tactical discussion i'd be very interested in people's view on what BOL posted earlier in this thread here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/mauricio-pochettino.6336/page-1049#post-1236987
Is poch hitting a wall? Or is what we are going through labour pains before the birth of a new Spurs under Poch?
Is poch hitting a wall? Or is what we are going through labour pains before the birth of a new Spurs under Poch?
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
We just lacked the motivation and intensity in that game which was restored against palace.
We also had no Jan and no eriksen I believe.
Last season the tail off was mainly due to incredible injuries and suspensions.