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Coronavirus

scaramanga said:
Massively, apparently.

Press went full retread here when it got out and the same's happening in Sweden - to the point where they have to brief daily to remind people not to call it that
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This is purely down to poor comms strategy on the part of our illustrious government. And down to people potentially getting angry because they are told do, rather than spending some time understanding a fairly complex concept. Agreed that is beyond many though...
 
What is the Testing update?

1. Are the government succeeding in getting people tested? If they are still failing, I'd bring in the army to help get testing centers live all over the nation. I don't buy lack of chemicals. We have a chemical industry. We have a huge pharma industry. Just need to rally the troops!

2. Does any country have an easy way to test for antibodies yet? Taking a blood sample obviously worked in Italy. If we need to do it with blood samples, that is what needs to be done. Urgently.

The lack of testing for NHS staff continues. I don't understand why. It is critical.
 
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LutonSpurs said:
This is purely down to poor comms strategy on the part of our illustrious government. And down to people potentially getting angry because they are told do*, rather than spending some time understanding a fairly complex concept. Agreed that is beyond many though...
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I think you've just nailed one of the biggest issues with the entire wider political discourse there, never mind just this one issue.

(*presume this was supposed to read 'to', btw)
 
LutonSpurs said:
This is purely down to poor comms strategy on the part of our illustrious government. And down to people potentially getting angry because they are told do, rather than spending some time understanding a fairly complex concept. Agreed that is beyond many though...
Click to expand...

The concept is not that complex. And if they wanted to implement it they should have purchased or had made enough:
- ventilators,
- protective equipment for all front line staff,
- tracking and quarantine facilities,
- hospital staff and beds
- ICU beds

But most importantly made sure that immunity is actually possible and long term.

They done none of that. And that's what made herd immunity a no go.

Because any government that wont protect it's own people isnt worth brick.

And if they implemented it without taking the strategic planning and preparation that would be required to minimize what would still be huge losses then this whole country would be ripe for revolution
 
braineclipse said:
I just find it way too early and easy to claim that all (or most) of the relevant experts have gotten it wrong on this one.

I get that your calculation puts comparably little weight on the health, life and well being on others. Most people come at this from a different perspective. With your starting point the calculations might have been different, that doesn't make them wrong at the moment.

I prefer a society where leaders and technocrats puts a high value on the life and well being of all its citizens. Based on that I think the shutdowns look reasonable. Though there's so much to learn about handling a pandemic like this in the modern world I'm open to us looking at it differently when this is evaluated at some point down the line. This will probably happen again so learning would be a good thing.

I would be more worried about what governments could put in place if this was allowed to develop freely over a period of months. Failing health care systems, failing institutions, many people having lost family members. That's when irreversible systematic change and extreme politicians would start to look paletable to a larger portion of the population imo. That would be the greater threat.

I think we might have quite different views of how this would look if allowed to spread freely through. Unfortunately there might be one or two examples where we find out what that looks like.
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I agree, the shutdowns are needed if for nothing else to buy time before deciding on what's sensible but in terms of protecting life/society we also need to consider:
  • How many deaths are caused by poverty, apparently austerity caused 10K deaths a year and this is austerity on steroids for millions of people who will lose their jobs or have a lower salary.
  • Mental health from being couped up
  • Ongoing medical issues with backlog of operations
  • Suicide rate increase
  • Domestic abuse
  • Lack of development e.g. children missing months of school
  • Headline rate of deaths is just that - some may also have been included in flu statistics etc
I think we'll hear a lot more on the above in the comings months when we look back.
 
DTA said:
The concept is not that complex. And if they wanted to implement it they should have purchased or had made enough:
- ventilators,
- protective equipment for all front line staff,
- tracking and quarantine facilities,
- hospital staff and beds
- ICU beds

But most importantly made sure that immunity is actually possible and long term.

They done none of that. And that's what made herd immunity a no go.

Because any government that wont protect it's own people isnt worth brick.

And if they implemented it without taking the strategic planning and preparation that would be required to minimize what would still be huge losses then this whole country would be ripe for revolution
Click to expand...
No hospital in the world can cope with 5-6 times the amount of ICU patients they are equipped to handle. It's not only about the number of beds or equipment, it's the personel required for ICU patients. You can't spec a hospital for 250 ICU beds, when 50 is more than enough 99,9% of the time.
 
Kandi1977 said:
No hospital in the world can cope with 5-6 times the amount of ICU patients they are equipped to handle. It's not only about the number of beds or equipment, it's the personel required for ICU patients. You can't spec a hospital for 250 ICU beds, when 50 is more than enough 99,9% of the time.
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I generally agree, but I would think that some items of PPE - I think some masks have a shelf life but I doubt a visor or gown does - and perhaps spare ventilators, could've been sourced and stored already as part of our pandemic plan? It's apparently been in place for years but doesn't seem to have considered this sort of thing (and flunked it's most recent war game I believe)?
 
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scaramanga said:
Massively, apparently.

Press went full retread here when it got out and the same's happening in Sweden - to the point where they have to brief daily to remind people not to call it that
Click to expand...

Yep and I think people are obsessed with the stats, people rejoicing that Italy and China are going down and on the face of it it looks good, but the only way this method works is if we all lock down forever till its suffocated, otherwise stage 2 is herd then back to lock down and so on .
 
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