Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The fact that Allegri is on the market is also a contributing factor for me, if there is any chance he comes we need to move, at least one of Solskjaer and Zidane if not both will be out of their jobs by Xmas at the latest and Allergi will or should be in the prime position for either job, if we can get him first it would be huge, the guy is a proven winner.

Ive mixed feelings on Allegri (and Mourinho, actually), but I think you are right in that with proven managers ready to step in - it does add a dimension to the situation.

A lot of the time theres the "but who do you replace him with?" question when a managers time looks to be up. We have in the past written off seasons just to get the right guy. This time that wouldnt seem to be necessary...

 

[SylDave]

Ive mixed feelings on Allegri (and Mourinho, actually), but I think you are right in that with proven managers ready to step in - it does add a dimension to the situation.

A lot of the time theres the "but who do you replace him with?" question when a managers time looks to be up. We have in the past written off seasons just to get the right guy. This time that wouldnt seem to be necessary...

I am absolutely against Mourinho, the guy is toxic he would come in we would have a good 18 months maybe even win a trophy, but he would leave us needing a complete rebuilt, right now we are not at that point, yes we will need to replace 3 or 4 in the summer but the squad don’t need completely rebuilding.

And that’s not to mention Mourinho’s cure for insomnia brand of football.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I am absolutely against Mourinho, the guy is toxic he would come in we would have a good 18 months maybe even win a trophy, but he would leave us needing a complete rebuilt, right now we are not at that point, yes we will need to replace 3 or 4 in the summer but the squad don’t need completely rebuilding.

And that’s not to mention Mourinho’s cure for insomnia brand of football.

Theres a whole thread for that conversation - I do quite agree with you for the most part.

Undeniably though, brick like last night wouldnt happen under him.

And you could even make an argument our squad is set up to suit him nicely.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I’m at home now and have ssn on, just heard his post match comments the one that just stuck out for me was at HT "it was my best feeling managing the team this season", wtf was he watching, the first half was a basketball game it was not a good performance, we were wide open.

O and heard Gnabry’s comment he is a absolute clam and should be treated as such.

I thought for the first 30 to 35 minutes we were excellent. Against a good team like Bayern you are always going to have gaps to exploit when pressing the way that we did. The problem was that we didn't take advantage of the excellent situations we created through our pressing and some lovely vision and passing from N'Dombele. Our pressing was executed by the whole team and was executed right up to their keeper. Bayern then grew into the game as our pressing decreased but I still didn't see too many problems, their two goals were fantastic finishes that are rarely scored. If we play like we did in that first half in the PL then we will have won most of our games before half time and can then sit deep and play on the counter attack.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Ive mixed feelings on Allegri (and Mourinho, actually), but I think you are right in that with proven managers ready to step in - it does add a dimension to the situation.

A lot of the time theres the "but who do you replace him with?" question when a managers time looks to be up. We have in the past written off seasons just to get the right guy. This time that wouldnt seem to be necessary...

Depends on if Levy/the board have financially backed Poch and would be prepared to back either of these two; you can bet your life they wont be coming here to talk about 'projects' etc, they will want to win now and want backing to that effect.

If Poch goes and Levy instead of trying to appoint one of these guys, instead goes for someone like Eddie Howe, we will all have our answer..

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I thought for the first 30 to 35 minutes we were excellent. Against a good team like Bayern you are always going to have gaps to exploit when pressing the way that we did. The problem was that we didn't take advantage of the excellent situations we created through our pressing and some lovely vision and passing from N'Dombele. Our pressing was executed by the whole team and was executed right up to their keeper. Bayern then grew into the game as our pressing decreased but I still didn't see too many problems, their two goals were fantastic finishes that are rarely scored. If we play like we did in that first half in the PL then we will have won most of our games before half time and can then sit deep and play on the counter attack.

Every goal they scored was an immaculate finish

I thought we were playing really well first half
But all I could hear from my friends watching at home was the diamond isnt working ....
the timing of their second goal hurt us yet again. Another conceded so later in the half

 

[Finney Is Back]

N'Dombele and Winks behind Son, Eriksen and Lamela/Dele

That's the 2nd best midfield anyone in this country can put by by an absolute fudging mile (admittedly still some way behind City).

It would probably be the 2nd weakest midfield in terms of its defensive quality. I'm shuddering at the thought of it and feel a bit dirty but I'd advocate putting Dier in there ahead of Winks so that we at least have one player who knows how to position himself when the opposition have the ball.

 

[SPURSBOY]

can someone explain the advantage of playing a diamond formation?

 

[StephenH]

Every goal they scored was an immaculate finish

I thought we were playing really well first half
But all I could hear from my friends watching at home was the diamond isnt working ....
the timing of their second goal hurt us yet again. Another conceded so later in the half

All these cobblers about this or that formation are all well and good but the bottom line is.

THE MANAGER IS SETTING THE TEAM UP INCORRECTLY AND WE KEEP LOSING.

 

[tynesidespur]

Before we pressed with

Kane
Son Alli Eriksen
Dembele Wanyama



Yesterday;

Son Kane
Alli
Sissoko Ndombele

Winks


It's a massive difference. The 2nd formation has the midfielders pressing high then trying to fill in to protect sometimes in the same phase of play. When the press was beaten the midfield three were spread across the whole of the pitch with massive gaps in between. Bayern played a 4-2-3-1 so as soon as our front three were byapssed it was 5 against 3.

The first formation is more compact, the midfield can become a 4 or even a 5 when needed.

If you have a vaguely competent DM instead of Winks then both systems will work fine. If you switch out peak Wanyama for the current iteration of Winks in the 1st system you will see the same problems. If anything the 2nd system has an extra midfielder in there which should provide compensation.

To be fair we are just seeing the game differently. I respect your pov, I just don't see it like that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

All these cobblers about this or that formation are all well and good but the bottom line is.

THE MANAGER IS SETTING THE TEAM UP INCORRECTLY AND WE KEEP LOSING.

Don’t disagree
Just thought we were the much better side in the first half and it like it was working to me in the south stand

My mates watching telly had a very different view

 

[tynesidespur]

I thought for the first 30 to 35 minutes we were excellent. Against a good team like Bayern you are always going to have gaps to exploit when pressing the way that we did. The problem was that we didn't take advantage of the excellent situations we created through our pressing and some lovely vision and passing from N'Dombele. Our pressing was executed by the whole team and was executed right up to their keeper. Bayern then grew into the game as our pressing decreased but I still didn't see too many problems, their two goals were fantastic finishes that are rarely scored. If we play like we did in that first half in the PL then we will have won most of our games before half time and can then sit deep and play on the counter attack.

The concern for me is why did the pressing drop off after 35 mins. Over the last 3-4 years we've had no problem keeping that level up for 60-70 mins?

 

[tynesidespur]

We didn't have a central pair when we went down from 1-1 to 1-4, we had Winks all on his own.

So what system were we playing? The diamond was abandoned at (or close to HT).

 

[DeanoAustin]

All these cobblers about this or that formation are all well and good but the bottom line is.

THE MANAGER IS SETTING THE TEAM UP INCORRECTLY AND WE KEEP LOSING.

Formation is a major part of how a manager sets up his team. A lot of other things flow from that and a lot of our "set-up" problems stem from the diamond formation.

 

[Finney Is Back]

When you are pressing as a unit, yes. When you are entirely disjointed, and basically winging it, and continually getting caught with opposition players in absolute acres of space - you basically run twice as much to make up the difference.

And thats how it looked to me. Effective in attack, in so much as we were getting bodies forward and looking dangerous, but really it was like 11 strangers out there playing on instinct, not a well drilled unit.

And defensively that showed quite blatantly, though I think its true of the attack too.

I thought our press was very, very well orchestrated in that first 30 minutes last night. There were even players giving their opponent just a bit of space so that the pass would be played to them before they pressed them with their opposite number then having no out ball at all. When a team presses there will always be space in behind. It is just very hard for the opposition to play through the press and find those players in space. In the opening 30 minutes Bayern hardly managed it at all whereas we won the ball back high up the pitch on numerous occasions or benefitted from rushed, poor clearances from their keeper that we exploited with them not yet re-organised defensively. If we play as we did in that opening 30 minutes against PL opposition we would be 3 - 0 up in most games (and could've been last night with a bit more composure from Son).

 

[AdamB]

can someone explain the advantage of playing a diamond formation?

you can avoid a decision over which CM to leave out

 

[SylDave]

Don’t disagree
Just thought we were the much better side in the first half and it like it was working to me in the south stand

My mates watching telly had a very different view

Hoddle was ripping the diamond to shreds from 10 minutes and at 1-1 went into detail about why it’s brick, he predicted the whole game early on and what was going to happen due to how we setup, Hoddle is as pro us as any commentator/pundit you are going to get.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Hoddle was ripping the diamond to shreds from 10 minutes and at 1-1 went into detail about why it’s brick, he predicted the whole game early on and what was going to happen due to how we setup, Hoddle is as pro us as any commentator/pundit you are going to get.

I know
It’s what my mates were saying
Just didn’t look like that at the game from my end

 

[JerusalemMan]

I thought for the first 30 to 35 minutes we were excellent. Against a good team like Bayern you are always going to have gaps to exploit when pressing the way that we did. The problem was that we didn't take advantage of the excellent situations we created through our pressing and some lovely vision and passing from N'Dombele. Our pressing was executed by the whole team and was executed right up to their keeper. Bayern then grew into the game as our pressing decreased but I still didn't see too many problems, their two goals were fantastic finishes that are rarely scored. If we play like we did in that first half in the PL then we will have won most of our games before half time and can then sit deep and play on the counter attack.

With a little distance and consideration, I agree with this.
As the first half unfolded, the reaction from not just fans but more neutral commentators/media figures was that it was a great game and the two teams were both playing quite well, defensively open and yielding an exciting spectacle. That continued nearly up to the hour mark. That's not the view of your typical multi-goal humiliation match.
4-2 isn't an embarrassment, 7-2 is. The transition from one to the other came as we removed defensive players near the end of the game and threw 5 attackers on in an attempt to salvage something. It failed and one of the best teams in Europe capitalised.
That's not the usual diagnosis from a game where a team concedes seven or gets beat by five goals.
Not many teams other than Bayern would have held out quite so well against our attack last night, nor do I think we'd have conceded anywhere near as many against almost any other team.

Poch gambled at the end of yesterday's game, he badly badly lost. But there's not very much to draw in a broad sense because of the special nature of last night's match

 

[Finney Is Back]

With the personel that we have available I think I would actually look to go with a 4-1-4-1 formation.

-------------------------------------------------------------Lloris
KWP/Sissoko--------------------Sanchez----------------------------------Vertonghen-------------------------Davies/Sessegnon
--------------------------------------------------------------Dier
Moura-------------Lo Celso/Lamela/Sissoko/Winks----------------N'Dombele/Ali/Sissoko/Winks-------Son/Sessegnon
-------------------------------------------------------------Kane

Trying to play players that actually want to be here as first choice.
Protection in front of the back four with Dier who should give those in front a bit of license to play
Natural width on either side so that our fullbacks don't need to play ridiculously high.
Decent creativity across the midfield four.
Dier able to drop in as a third centre half allowing Sanchez and Vertonghen to fan out and cover their full back if and when they do get forward.
Kane up front on his own where he tends to play best.

If looking at that team it only really needs proper top class replacements for KWP, Dier and Davies (with them dropping to cover) and perhaps some additional cover for Moura to be able to properly challenge for trophies.

The problem is that the above relies on Dier being fit and fine until (at least) January. Can anyone think of any experienced pro's who are proper holding players that might fancy a little 1.5 to 2.5 year swan song in the PL? available for a reasonably priced transfer in January? There must be a few of those sorts of player in Italy?