Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[glorygloryeze]

Given a straight choice between Son and Deli I would pick Son every single time. Better finisher, faster, better dribbler, more unpredictable, better shooting from distance etc etc. We need Son particularly for those tight games because he is the guy that will try something unpredictable he is also constantly making runs whether he is on form or not. His goals come in bursts no more than Deli do too.

Poch's job is not to make Deli's stats the best, he has to pick who he thinks is the best player for the job. 2016/17 Deli best season stat wise was also a good year for Son

For the most part of degradation of the quality of the football is directly linked to the decreasing quality of our CM notably the physical decline of Wanyama, Dier and Dembele along with the addition of the particularly low quality Sissoko.

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Spot on re the bolded bit; it's been in decline perhaps since we won that famous game at Stamford Bridge in April 2018. We sleepwalked into this and who is at fault might decide how or whether it ends up being resolved over the next month or so...

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

He earned the contract, Ive no issue with it at all. We wanted stability, and there was no reason to think things were going to go this bad this quickly.

The interesting thing will be around what clauses there are in the contract around performance and dismissal etc.

He is the devil.


THE DEVIL

 

[SteveAWOL]

I don't agree with either of you about that opening period.

I'd love to see the xG for that opening 30-35 mins because as I recall Gnabry got in behind in the opening minute and they then did very little after that other than a speculative 25 yard shot from Kimmich which resulted in a goal. We pressed, we were connected and compact and we created 4 good goal-scoring chances but only took one (Kane, Son twice, N'Dombele). After that I agree the intensity dropped but come on - I've seen Spurs play at that intensity for the last 5 years - it should've been no problem to keep that up even for an hour. It doesn't matter on the system - pressing is all about shutting off options closest to the man in possession, suffocating the opposition and allowing them no out-ball which we were doing. It really shouldn't be a problem for players to cover that ground - its the same size of pitch whichever system you play.

FWIW...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Watching this brick show is not a gamble, it’s like watching a loved one self harm through substance abuse and sticking your head in the sand saying it’s just a phase, this has been going on for a year now, if it was from the start of this season I would be first in line to defend him.

Last year I gave him grace, and I still do. There were a huge number of mitigating circumstances and I do believe it was very much a case of making the best of bad situation.

So, for me, it is this season thats the problem. And the problem seems to be Poch has lost his vision, and his drive, and is allowing last seasons form/malaise/issues to carry through this season.

 

[Grays_1890]

My worry for Poch is all the signs for him to go are adding up, the press circulating, the Cup exit, the fans going mad, the tetchy press conference and last night.

Its hard to see how he turns the tide at the minute

 

[SylDave]

Given a straight choice between Son and Deli I would pick Son every single time. Better finisher, faster, better dribbler, more unpredictable, better shooting from distance etc etc. We need Son particularly for those tight games because he is the guy that will try something unpredictable he is also constantly making runs whether he is on form or not. His goals come in bursts no more than Deli do too.

Poch's job is not to make Deli's stats the best, he has to pick who he thinks is the best player for the job. 2016/17 Deli best season stat wise was also a good year for Son

For the most part of degradation of the quality of the football is directly linked to the decreasing quality of our CM notably the physical decline of Wanyama, Dier and Dembele along with the addition of the particularly low quality Sissoko.

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Given the choice of a fully fit and on form Son or Alli, I agree it’s Son, but Alli is more consistent over the course of a season, and as for Son’s 16/17 stats he was not a regular starter, I believe that was the first season that Kane done his ankle, Son came in for a couple of months as direct replacement up top and was on fire for most of that period, but then at that point we were the best team in the country imo, it’s a different discussion but that 2017 summer is where it started to go downhill in a number of ways.

 

[StephenH]

He will def be here Saturday, there is then a international break, if we lose at Brighton I would not put money on him definitely being here after it.

I don't want Levy dither under the guise of loyalty that undoes everything the Pochettio era has achieved.

 

[SylDave]

Last year I gave him grace, and I still do. There were a huge number of mitigating circumstances and I do believe it was very much a case of making the best of bad situation.

So, for me, it is this season thats the problem. And the problem seems to be Poch has lost his vision, and his drive, and is allowing last seasons form/malaise/issues to carry through this season.

I was still behind him but questioning his decisions up until till last Tuesday, Colchester was my breaking point.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don't want Levy dither under the guise of loyalty that undoes everything the Pochettio era has achieved.

It depends on if Poch has 'achieved' due to Levy/the board or despite Levy/the board. If it's despite Levy/the board, who would want the job other tan the likes of an Eddie Howe?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I was still behind him but questioning his decisions up until till last Tuesday, Colchester was my breaking point.

Thats fair enough. And its certainly not for me to tell you you are wrong or anything like that.

I guess I hang on in hope things can turn around, ever the optimist...

Problem is after last night thats basically impossible, now its about seeing tangible change or making tangible change.

It depends on if Poch has 'achieved' due to Levy/the board or despite Levy/the board. If it's despite Levy/the board, who would want the job other tan the likes of an Eddie Howe?

Regardless of the board, all responsibility for the shocking performances this season lays with Poch.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Thats fair enough. And its certainly not for me to tell you you are wrong or anything like that.

I guess I hang on in hope things can turn around, ever the optimist...

Problem is after last night thats basically impossible, now its about seeing tangible change or making tangible change.



Regardless of the board, all responsibility for the shocking performances this season lays with Poch.

We've had progressively shocking performances that go right back to April 2018. If the areas that REALLY needed fixing had been up to now (RB, DCM, CM and striker) it would be totally on Poch. Right now, if we wanted to play what everyone is asking for, i.e. 4-2-3-1, would our results and performances really be much different? I'm not sure they would tbh

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

We've had progressively shocking performances that go right back to April 2018. If the areas that REALLY needed fixing had been up to now (RB, DCM, CM and striker) it would be totally on Poch. Right now, if we wanted to play what everyone is asking for, i.e. 4-2-3-1, would our results and performances really be much different? I'm not sure they would tbh

I am.

Put it this way, the performances we are seeing right now - is that the best we can get out of the squad we have?

I say no, not even close. And so, I say, the manager is failing.

You may well disagree, entirely fair, but thats really what it comes down to IMO.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I am.

Put it this way, the performances we are seeing right now - is that the best we can get out of the squad we have?

I say no, not even close. And so, I say, the manager is failing.

You may well disagree, entirely fair, but thats really what it comes down to IMO.

The manager is failing by simple definition, we can both agree on that.
It will be the reasons for why he is failing which will decide what happens from herein the next few weeks...

 

[scaramanga]

They both played last night and from 35-60 mins when we switched to 4-4-1-1 they were the central pair and we went from 1-1 to 1-4.

We didn't have a central pair when we went down from 1-1 to 1-4, we had Winks all on his own.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The manager is failing by simple definition, we can both agree on that.
It will be the reasons for why he is failing which will decide what happens from herein the next few weeks...

Well I think the primary reason is a singular failure from Poch to actually make the best of the players he has.

Perhaps issues around squad building, purchases and sale etc have left him disillusioned - but while that might explain his attitude, it doesnt excuse it.

It is a simple definition, but it is a key one. Poch is simply not doing his job right now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I do think I’m right in wanting Diego Simeone might sort out the defensive side a bit.

All is fair in love and war mate, and spurs is always about both.

Right now I feel like poop because that was humiliating.

The problem is that I don't think he would leave Atletico Madrid for us. I think they pay him more than we pay Poch don't they?

 

[SylDave]

Thats fair enough. And its certainly not for me to tell you you are wrong or anything like that.

I guess I hang on in hope things can turn around, ever the optimist...

Problem is after last night thats basically impossible, now its about seeing tangible change or making tangible change.



Regardless of the board, all responsibility for the shocking performances this season lays with Poch.

This is the thing for me, you said it yourself too playing the diamond is hurting the club, as backwards as this sounds if we play a diamond on Saturday and somehow win 4-0 in a basketball game I won’t be happy because it’s giving him the ammunition to keep playing the diamond, if we go there and win 1-0 even just get a draw but are playing a 4231 or any competent formation with players in their best positions and any form of tactical acumen showing that he has learned, I will be happier and am fully prepared to get back behind him.

As long as he keeps playing this system we are going nowhere fast and in this situation it would be for the long term benefit of the club that a parting of the ways occurs imo.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The problem is that I don't think he would leave Atletico Madrid for us. I think they pay him more than we pay Poch don't they?

Absolutely no way we could pull in Simeone, its pie in the sky stuff.

Similarly people talking about Kovac yesterday, Tuchel at PSG. Maybe even Rodgers at Leicester, only just got there on a juicy contract and they wont want to let him go (not that Id want him).

And thats all the while Allegri and Mourinho are on the market, they are the easiest to get and of the required level to be expected to make a difference.

 

[SylDave]

Absolutely no way we could pull in Simeone, its pie in the sky stuff.

Similarly people talking about Kovac yesterday, Tuchel at PSG. Maybe even Rodgers at Leicester, only just got there on a juicy contract and they wont want to let him go (not that Id want him).

And thats all the while Allegri and Mourinho are on the market, they are the easiest to get and of the required level to be expected to make a difference.

The fact that Allegri is on the market is also a contributing factor for me, if there is any chance he comes we need to move, at least one of Solskjaer and Zidane if not both will be out of their jobs by Xmas at the latest and Allergi will or should be in the prime position for either job, if we can get him first it would be huge, the guy is a proven winner.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The diamond is brick. It leaves Aurier exposed to one vs one's, unless Sissoko comes across to rescue him, which them leaves a massive hole in midfield with Winks facing a 2v1. Its fudging flimflam.

Only against teams brave enough to push their full backs on (as Bayern were). The problem is that we do not counter this by getting (e.g.) Son out high and wide to exploit the massive space in behind that this leaves. If we turnover possession, it should actually be a reasonably simple into Son with Kane and Ali in support giving us a 3 on 3 with lots of space to run into.