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Manager Sack Watch

Neither did they go mental and disappear at half time, go hiding whenever it came to derby day or generally show that they are clearly unfit for any job which entails even the smallest amount of pressure.

Exactly.

Collymore is a funny one, occasionally he gets on his soapbox and actually talks a lot of sense.

However, in this instance, it doesnt stand up to any sort of scrutiny at all. Its just nonsense.

You cant hang your "The institution is racist..." speech on Sol Campbell.
 
Exactly.

Collymore is a funny one, occasionally he gets on his soapbox and actually talks a lot of sense.

However, in this instance, it doesnt stand up to any sort of scrutiny at all. Its just nonsense.

You cant hang your "The institution is racist..." speech on Sol Campbell.
Quite. I'm not saying there isn't an example anywhere of racism in managerial appointments - I haven't nearly researched it enough to find out.

What is very clear, is that Campbell not getting a job is no evidence of anything other than Campbell being a fudging clam and a stupid one at that.
 
Quite. I'm not saying there isn't an example anywhere of racism in managerial appointments - I haven't nearly researched it enough to find out.

What is very clear, is that Campbell not getting a job is no evidence of anything other than Campbell being a fudging clam and a stupid one at that.

Absolutely.

Under it all Im sure the is something to Collymores intent, I doubt the entire industry is completely free from racism.

However, his whole argument here just doesnt work.

I also think there are more black coaches and managers these days, while of course in the minority - it is improving.

I tend to prefer education to counter these things, rather than positive discrimination.
 
When there has been inequality for years, decades, eons, whatever, then attempts to redress the balance need an element of positive discrimination - as one tool, alongside education - to speed up the process. I don't have an issue with that per se.
But to use Campbell as an example of racism in terms of managerial opportunities is so wide of the mark it's laughable. What links does he still have with football? How many football roles has he actually applied for?
Didn't he have political 'aspirations' at one stage?
The bloke is a fraud, and he and Collymore do a huge disservice to people who genuinely are victims of racism.
 
How seriously has Campbell pursued management jobs, as in applying rather than just talking to the press about not getting one. His arguments that he wouldn't consider anything below tier two as worth his trouble and that he could learn all that was necessary in a few weeks is hardly going to get club owners knocking on his door.

And did Frank Lampard make a pitch for the job by saying "I'm Frank Lampard". Or did Gerrard declared "I'm Steve ... er, might not be a good example that last one.
 
When there has been inequality for years, decades, eons, whatever, then attempts to redress the balance need an element of positive discrimination - as one tool, alongside education - to speed up the process. I don't have an issue with that per se.
But to use Campbell as an example of racism in terms of managerial opportunities is so wide of the mark it's laughable. What links does he still have with football? How many football roles has he actually applied for?
Didn't he have political 'aspirations' at one stage?
The bloke is a fraud, and he and Collymore do a huge disservice to people who genuinely are victims of racism.

I tend to think of prejudice, in almost any form, as bad. Essentially because it is at the expense of another.

As stated upthread, The Rooney Rule wont change anything.

Hypothetically, a racist chairman forced to interview people of colour, will still just go for the man he wanted in the first place.

BUT - the forced inclusion of some, will most likely mean the exclusion of others - based upon race. Its a minefield.

Ive seen similar talk around women in boardrooms as well. While Ive no issue at all with that, I dont see what forcing it achieves.

IMO a better policy would be anonymised CV's, if possible, for the screening stages. Nothing to infer gender, ethnicity or anything, just qualifications and experience and suitability.

Get through that, see what you have - everyone gets there on merit.
 
I think the Rooney Rule has some merits. It gets people through the door. Then the chairman and board can make a decision based on the interview. It's the initial screening where unconscious prejudices come into play, where a candidate may be rejected in favour to those who fit the bill of "football manager" better in the chairman's mind (i.e. middle aged white man with a saggy face). Once it comes down to face to face interviews these unconscious prejudices become secondary to actual knowledge of the candidate and how he (or she) plans to do the job.

Obviously this will have no effect for outright racists or those with deeply ingrained prejudices. But it is a process. Once black managers become more common the prejudices will gradually disappear. Most chairmen want to win first and foremost. The Rooney Rule can help speed up the process.
 
I think the Rooney Rule has some merits. It gets people through the door. Then the chairman and board can make a decision based on the interview. It's the initial screening where unconscious prejudices come into play, where a candidate may be rejected in favour to those who fit the bill of "football manager" better in the chairman's mind (i.e. middle aged white man with a saggy face). Once it comes down to face to face interviews these unconscious prejudices become secondary to actual knowledge of the candidate and how he (or she) plans to do the job.

Obviously this will have no effect for outright racists or those with deeply ingrained prejudices. But it is a process. Once black managers become more common the prejudices will gradually disappear. Most chairmen want to win first and foremost. The Rooney Rule can help speed up the process.

Fair point.

Shame that RSol will use it and elbow aside a better candidate 'of colour'
 
Snubbing Sol Campbell while Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard get big jobs is discrimination - we need Rooney Rule now
Campbell has been snubbed for roles as he looks to get into management, while former England stars were able to walk into positions

By
Stan Collymore
  • 18:45, 4 JUN 2018
  • UPDATED22:21, 4 JUN 2018

The Rooney Rule in football is now a must. And it is time for the discrimination to stop.

I understand all too well what discrimination is. I have been discriminated against in the past and continue to be.

I have won six major broadcasting awards but cannot get on any of the five or six main channels.(1)

Some of that is because I’m outspoken and I’ve called people out in managerial positions. I get it.

But in football the closest Sol Campbell, one of our most decorated players, has got to a major job is the assistant mangers’ role with Trinidad and Tobago.

Meanwhile, Frank Lampard has walked straight into Derby for his first job.

Steven Gerrard has walked straight into Rangers.

Roy Keane walked straight into Sunderland. Joey Barton was unveiled as Fleetwood Town manager yesterday.

If I acknowledge that coaching and management is only partly about qualifications, having been in six, seven, eight or nine good clubs I can say a big part is leadership, personality and character.

Ok. Where has Joey Barton proved his character, leadership, managerial and captaincy skills over Campbell? He hasn’t.

Then people will go further down the list for excuses. They won’t look for racism until it is blatantly obvious.

So then they say ‘but Barton knows the guy at Fleetwood.’(2)

Then it will be ‘Gerrard and Lampard are more relevant in modern football than Campbell.’(3)

Another is people use the experiences of John Barnes and Paul Ince and say they didn’t get jobs because they were bad managers, not because of their colour.

But the numbers don’t add up.

The stats show that since 1990 one in four England internationals to retire have been from black or ethnic minority backgrounds but only one in seven has gone into a management job.

Meanwhile a white, ex-England player is twice as likely to end up in a managerial job as their black counterpart.

So now, it is time for the Rooney Rule, guaranteeing minorities proper consideration for positions.(4)

And instead of friends giving friends jobs it is time for a merit-only based procedure.

Clubs should have to interview, for example, 10 candidates and out of those 10 there has to be a certain number who are of black or ethnic minority.

Then they can see the man, the whites of his eyes and they can put themselves there.

The excuses have got to stop. And if they don’t, pressure needs to be put on the PFA and the FA who have loosely agreed to put the Rooney Rule into effect and also the Premier League about, at some point, strike action.

Gary Neville nearly took the players out on strike over the PFA getting a certain amount of money from the Premier League. This is a million times more important.

His, and many people’s, colleagues are being discriminated against so they need to stand up and have a show of unity and say ‘we’re going to go on strike because we want the Rooney Rule. Look what it’s done in the NFL.’

Now we have black Super Bowl-winning coaches but 15, 20 years ago they were having exactly the same debate – ‘they’re not captaincy and leadership figures’ was the claim.

But at every turn those walls have been broken down and proven to be rubbish.

The notion that Gerrard and Lampard walk into those very high-profile jobs and that Campbell is scratching around in a part-time role, if that doesn’t accurately highlight discrimination I don’t know what does. (5)



(1) Sorry, Stan, but thats more likely because you are a well publicised woman beating bell end. TV companies will not go near people with such poor PR in the first place, it leaves them exposed. Look at Carragher this season, golden boy immeidately (and indefinitely?) suspended after being caught spitting at someone.

(2) Barton does know the guy at Fleetwood (a man who prides himself on doing things differently). More importantly, he knows Barton.
In his own words:
“It doesn’t bother me. Clearly Joey regrets what occurred but I’m all about looking forwards.

“I really enjoy his company. He’s not the guy a lot of people believe him to be. He’s made mistakes in the past but so has everybody.

“He’s box office. If we want to increase the profile of the football club he’ll certainly do that.

“He’s very intelligent, he’s an excellent communicator, has huge energy levels and is very driven. He has all the attributes to be a top coach.

“He’s going to be raw, I understand that. There’s an responsibility on me and the other people at the football club to assist him. But I think he can take us right to the top of League One.

“He’s been managing in dressing rooms for years. He’s a leader. I think he can go on to blossom into one of the top coaches in the UK, and who knows, even Europe.”


If anyone is qualified to judge Bartons suitability, its him. Nepotism? Yeah, maybe, but racism? Absolutely not.

(3) Gerrard and Lampard ARE more relevant. They stuck around longer, won more, were higher profile. Nothing to do with race.

(4) Quite possiblynot a popular one here, but I do not want or like the Rooney rule. Positive discrimination is still discrimination.

(5) It doesnt show discrimination. It shows two people focused on building a management career, including the contacts, profile, background etc required, and one who is an utter bellend and lunatic who expects it to be offered on a plate.
Has Rsol applied for the Derby, Fleetwood or Rangers jobs? I think he thought he was a shoe in to be Arsene's replacement. Playing the race card in this way is appalling. I may not think much of Joey Barton but at least he is trying to learn his managerial trade outside of the PL, same for Lampard. Fair play to them.
 
Has Rsol applied for the Derby, Fleetwood or Rangers jobs? I think he thought he was a shoe in to be Arsene's replacement. Playing the race card in this way is appalling. I may not think much of Joey Barton but at least he is trying to learn his managerial trade outside of the PL, same for Lampard. Fair play to them.
Didn't Rsol say lower Lge was beneath him?
 
Has Rsol applied for the Derby, Fleetwood or Rangers jobs? I think he thought he was a shoe in to be Arsene's replacement. Playing the race card in this way is appalling. I may not think much of Joey Barton but at least he is trying to learn his managerial trade outside of the PL, same for Lampard. Fair play to them.

And gerrard has gone even lower
 
Didn't Rsol say lower Lge was beneath him?

Covered earlier in the thread I think but it was after he was rejected for the manager's position at Oxford :
“I don't want to go too low that it's a struggle, and I don't want to go too low that I'm under someone and thinking "what am I doing here?" I would rather be managing a club myself.”

Although in the case of Oxford he didn't claim racism, rather it was due to his superior intellect that he lost out.

Campbell also wonders whether his formidable intellect may have deterred Oxford from hiring him.
“I'm confident and it's not like it's rocket science to run a football club, especially when you get to that level,” he added.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...d-job-arsenal-tottenham-england-a8223386.html

I hope he does get a managerial role somewhere, just for our entertainment.
 
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