No Spurs v West Brom omt yet? Can this be it?

[DubaiSpur]

As I mentioned in the previous post, did the season just finish with us in 5th place and I missed it? We go through patches like this. It just so happens that this season we are going through one at the tail end of the season. We've been spoiled by the fact that in the past two seasons we qualified for CL with a few games to go. And this season we've still got room for the odd bad result, so let's not get ahead of our skis.

It's more than that. This is not a malaise that is dependent on just one bad outcome - this is something fundamental that rears its head in moments when things are on the line. If we finish 5th, it will be a disaster that warrants serious questions - but, regardless of whether that happens, this is something deep-rooted.

Need three points in a crucial end of season game with relegation on the line? Spurs are your team. Need to get to the FA Cup final? Spurs are who you want to play in the semis. Have a bit of streetwise nous? Play Spurs, they'll let you use it at the worst possible time for them and you can walk away happy while they self-implode. And you could be West Brom or you could be United, Juve or Real Madrid - none of those things will change. It's a self-destructive streak baked into our history that every one of our players inherits - a mental flaw, a weakness, that emerges despite all their empty talk about how they've beaten it.

We are threatening, dangerous and good when there's no pressure on and the lads can play pretty while keeping their hairstyles flawless. When the pressure falls upon us, when grit and an iron will is needed to win however we can, we wilt and fade. It's the Spurs way. Like Leverkusen in Germany (nicknamed 'Neverkusen' for how frequently they fail to win things when in promising positions), we're bottlers at heart. It's just something that's becoming crushingly obvious as we actually reach positions where we can fall short.

And even Poch can only do so much - he can perform heroically, drag us to within reach of beating it, but it will always return. And it has.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I'm confused.......they've been saying all week that Klopp has only won 1 of the 6 finals he's contested.

He's also won two league titles. No finals involved there.

 

[nayenezgani]

It's more than that. This is not a malaise that is dependent on just one bad outcome - this is something fundamental that rears its head in moments when things are on the line. If we finish 5th, it will be a disaster that warrants serious questions - but, regardless of whether that happens, this is something deep-rooted.

Need three points in a crucial end of season game with relegation on the line? Spurs are your team. Need to get to the FA Cup final? Spurs are who you want to play in the semis. Have a bit of streetwise nous? Play Spurs, they'll let you use it at the worst possible time for them and you can walk away happy while they self-implode. And you could be West Brom or you could be United, Juve or Real Madrid - none of those things will change. It's a self-destructive streak baked into our history that every one of our players inherits - a mental flaw, a weakness, that emerges despite all their empty talk about how they've beaten it.

We are threatening, dangerous and good when there's no pressure on and the lads can play pretty while keeping their hairstyles flawless. When the pressure falls upon us, when grit and an iron will is needed to win however we can, we wilt and fade. It's the Spurs way. Like Leverkusen in Germany (nicknamed 'Neverkusen' for how frequently they fail to win things when in promising positions), we're bottlers at heart. It's just something that's becoming crushingly obvious as we actually reach positions where we can fall short.

And even Poch can only do so much - he can perform heroically, drag us to within reach of beating it, but it will always return. And it has.

Yes but you still haven't answered the most pertinent question at hand; where do you go when we win?

Are you crying in your cave somewhere?

 

[alekaras]

But is it really impossible to get more than one point from WBA this season?

You mean the West Broom that beat Yanited and drew with Lollerpool in the past couple of weeks?

 

[alekaras]

It's more than that. This is not a malaise that is dependent on just one bad outcome - this is something fundamental that rears its head in moments when things are on the line. If we finish 5th, it will be a disaster that warrants serious questions - but, regardless of whether that happens, this is something deep-rooted.

Need three points in a crucial end of season game with relegation on the line? Spurs are your team. Need to get to the FA Cup final? Spurs are who you want to play in the semis. Have a bit of streetwise nous? Play Spurs, they'll let you use it at the worst possible time for them and you can walk away happy while they self-implode. And you could be West Brom or you could be United, Juve or Real Madrid - none of those things will change. It's a self-destructive streak baked into our history that every one of our players inherits - a mental flaw, a weakness, that emerges despite all their empty talk about how they've beaten it.

We are threatening, dangerous and good when there's no pressure on and the lads can play pretty while keeping their hairstyles flawless. When the pressure falls upon us, when grit and an iron will is needed to win however we can, we wilt and fade. It's the Spurs way. Like Leverkusen in Germany (nicknamed 'Neverkusen' for how frequently they fail to win things when in promising positions), we're bottlers at heart. It's just something that's becoming crushingly obvious as we actually reach positions where we can fall short.

And even Poch can only do so much - he can perform heroically, drag us to within reach of beating it, but it will always return. And it has.

We did beat Chelski in what was the most crucial game in finishing in the CL spots. After that we seem to have taken our foot off the gas. We can call it bottling if we finish the season in 5th place. Until then, let's relax a bit.

 

[Daisuk]

The drama queens really need to take a step back, breathe, and remember that it goes a bit up and down in football. Overall we weren't that poor yesterday, in my opinion, and unlucky to lose. 4th is still within our grasp, and we'd all be beyond ourselves with joy if we had even had a sniff of that at the start of the season.

Perspective. Take it easy.

 

[Briddo1882]

For the record, I want the Baggies to go down.

I am fed up with them being our bogey team.

I hope Villa get promoted....we always beat them easily!

 

[StephenH]

I’m no longer sure about that. What I am sure of is that Mourinho would have won the FA Cup semi final with our squad.

Mourinho would be a too higher price to pay.
Are you prepared to embrace the dark side?

 

[billyiddo]

Mourinho is also one of the greatest managers in the game - if you have to compare Poch to him to prove your point im pretty sure all sense of balance has gone out the window

 

[StephenH]

Mourinho is also one of the greatest managers in the game - if you have to compare Poch to him to prove your point im pretty sure all sense of balance has gone out the window

Who’s comparing?
I’m certainly not
Mourinho becomes the Spurs manager I'd lose all heart in following Spurs. Loathsome man.

 

[billyiddo]

Who’s comparing?

The guy you quoted who said Mourino would have won the semi with our squad

 

[StephenH]

The guy you quoted who said Mourino would have won the semi with our squad

He is hurting! It’ll pass.
Yes he’s Mourinho is an experienced manager but only like Pep. Give him Pochettino budget they both would have to put some real shoulder behind the task. Both Manchester clubs are uncatchable.
Li pool and Spurs have done well.
Pochettino is doing a tough job with a finite resource!
Poch also is still a baby compared to the other in the top six managers.

 

[billyiddo]

He is hurting! It’ll pass.
Yes he’s Mourinho is an experienced manager but only like Pep. Give him Pochettino budget they both would have to put some real shoulder behind the task. Both Manchester clubs are uncatchable.
Li pool and Spurs have done well.
Pochettino is doing a tough job with a finite resource!
Poch also is still a baby compared to the other in the top six managers.

I know mate, i try not to hold posts in the aftermath of a poor result against people but that's hard bloody work sometimes.

We're in a rut and seemingly have been since the Chelsea game, though i do wonder if it's more so the cup semi that has taken the wind out of our sails and whether we have just found it hard to get over that particular disappointment... with the gap to 5th being so large perhaps we thought the season was all but finished and a little malaise has set in.

West Brom was always going to be the toughest of our remaining fixtures - if we fudge up from here with the games we have left then it's something that can rightly be attacked, but 2 wins.from them and a 3rd place finish and a few people will look more than a bit stupid in the reactions of late.

 

[StephenH]

I know mate, i try not to hold posts in the aftermath of a poor result against people but that's hard bloody work sometimes.

We're in a rut and seemingly have been since the Chelsea game, though i do wonder if it's more so the cup semi that has taken the wind out of our sails and whether we have just found it hard to get over that particular disappointment... with the gap to 5th being so large perhaps we thought the season was all but finished and a little malaise has set in.

West Brom was always going to be the toughest of our remaining fixtures - if we fudge up from here with the games we have left then it's something that can rightly be attacked, but 2 wins.from them and a 3rd place finish and a few people will look more than a bit stupid in the reactions of late.

The West Brom game is in a very perverse sort of way is ‘one’ of the reasons we all ‘enjoy’ the game.
It’s unpredictable, hurts when ones team loses etc. Take that away and it would be boring like following PSG in France, pointless.

 

[Spurs7891]

Really disgusted with this defeat. Thought we are mentally stronger to lose to any bottom team these days. Instead, in a typical Spurs fashion we went and lost to WBA who are bottom of the table. This is the first time we have lost to WBA since 2014 and our first away loss at WBA in 10 years. WBA may be our bogey team but that is not an excuse to fail to beat them home and away this season. Remember we came from 0-3 down to draw 3-3 at WBA in 2014. It seems we badly lacking such mental strengths this season. Frankly, we didn't play too badly but our attack were toothless. We dominated the match but failed to create enough goal scoring chances and were duly punished for that. Annoyingly, WBA only had 1 shots on target and they scored from that. Even more annoying that it was our former player Livermore who scored that goal !

Almost all our key players were poor in this march. Kane was easily our worst player as he not only wasted a one-on-one chance but almost scored an embarassing own goal as well. It seems like something is really wrong with Kane as he doesn't look like the striker who won the Golden Boot for the last 2 seasons now. Others like Eriksen and Alli were poor as well. Was really annoyed with Eriksen for wasting many freekicks. Not sure why Eriksen always hits the defensive wall from his freekicks. He did take 1 good freekick but it was easily saved by the goalie. Lamela didn't have his best game but at least he was working hard. Lamela should have done better with his goal scoring chance in the second half but unfortunately he lacks confident in front of goal. Son was poor after coming on but at least Moura tried to make an impact after coming on but it was not enough for us. Not sure why we brought on Llorente when it has been proven many times that Kane and Llorente cannot play together.

Our midfield were poor in this match. I think Pochettino has to take the blame for only starting Wanyama and dropping Dembele and Dier. Our midfield looked out of balance with that. Wanyama has looked rusty since his injuries and he again struggled in this match. Maybe should have bring on Dier or Sissoko to improve the midfield in the second half.

Our defence didn't have much to do whole match but still ended up conceding the goal. Good to see Alderweireld coming back to our defence but annoyingly we still conceded a soft goal like that. It seems like our defence got affected once Vertonghen went off injured. It shows we need to have Alderweireld and Vertonghen together in defence. Lloris did well to save Kane from scoring an own goal. But felt our entire defence including Lloris should have done better with WBA's goal. Rose could have cleared the ball but let it bounce off him which resulted in the goal. Maybe Lloris should have reacted faster to the goal as well.

We had chance to go above Liverpool into 3rd place if we had won this match but instead we blew away the chance. Now, we must win our remaining 2 matches to finish in top 4. Let's hope we will improve our performances in the remaining matches.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's more than that. This is not a malaise that is dependent on just one bad outcome - this is something fundamental that rears its head in moments when things are on the line. If we finish 5th, it will be a disaster that warrants serious questions - but, regardless of whether that happens, this is something deep-rooted.

Need three points in a crucial end of season game with relegation on the line? Spurs are your team. Need to get to the FA Cup final? Spurs are who you want to play in the semis. Have a bit of streetwise nous? Play Spurs, they'll let you use it at the worst possible time for them and you can walk away happy while they self-implode. And you could be West Brom or you could be United, Juve or Real Madrid - none of those things will change. It's a self-destructive streak baked into our history that every one of our players inherits - a mental flaw, a weakness, that emerges despite all their empty talk about how they've beaten it.

We are threatening, dangerous and good when there's no pressure on and the lads can play pretty while keeping their hairstyles flawless. When the pressure falls upon us, when grit and an iron will is needed to win however we can, we wilt and fade. It's the Spurs way. Like Leverkusen in Germany (nicknamed 'Neverkusen' for how frequently they fail to win things when in promising positions), we're bottlers at heart. It's just something that's becoming crushingly obvious as we actually reach positions where we can fall short.

And even Poch can only do so much - he can perform heroically, drag us to within reach of beating it, but it will always return. And it has.

This is baggage WE carry as life long fans....most of this team haven't been around that long.

They probably don't even know of, let alone remember losing to Everton, Portsmouth in fa semis, losing to city in the fa Cup when they had ten men, losing to man u being 3-0 up etc etc ...you get the picture.

We've had great wins this year, wins we never imagined this club capable of.
We've had some losses but were not disgraced in the Man U or Juve losses.
We will lose, otherwise we will win the quadruple every season.

The despair you suffer, is yours, not this teams.

 

[Kandi1977]

This is baggage WE carry as life long fans....most of this team haven't been around that long.

They probably don't even know of, let alone remember losing to Everton, Portsmouth in fa semis, losing to city in the fa Cup when they had ten men, losing to man u being 3-0 up etc etc ...you get the picture.

We've had great wins this year, wins we never imagined this club capable of.
We've had some losses but were not disgraced in the Man U or Juve losses.
We will lose, otherwise we will win the quadruple every season.

The despair you suffer, is yours, not this teams.

But still, it's the same pattern year after year after year. It's not a coincidence or bad luck.

 

[90291Spur]

You mean the West Broom that beat Yanited and drew with Lollerpool in the past couple of weeks?

Yes. THAT West Brom who are bottom of the league. Who we nearly lost to at Wembley. And by the same token THAT HUddersfield we easily beat by 4 and 2 just drew with Emirates Marketing Project.

 

[DubaiSpur]

This is baggage WE carry as life long fans....most of this team haven't been around that long.

They probably don't even know of, let alone remember losing to Everton, Portsmouth in fa semis, losing to city in the fa Cup when they had ten men, losing to man u being 3-0 up etc etc ...you get the picture.

We've had great wins this year, wins we never imagined this club capable of.
We've had some losses but were not disgraced in the Man U or Juve losses.
We will lose, otherwise we will win the quadruple every season.

The despair you suffer, is yours, not this teams.

There's three counter-arguments to this viewpoint, however.

The first is that we as fans provide the institutional memory that permeates the club - it's a feedback loop that stems from the stands, is amplified by the media and is then conveyed to the ears of the folks at the club. It matters - it's probably one of the only voices any fans in England have left in the running of their club, since any real input or power was taken away from them a long time ago.

So, that is definitely a way by which the current lot are infused with the memories of our past. Now, you might say that this necessitates the fans *forgetting* the past in order to get the players to do so as well, but that goes into the age-old question of whether the players need to inspire the fans to believe or the other way around. There's no easy answer to that. But, either way, there is a definite mechanism by which players learn the history of our club, and by doing so adopt its baggage.

The second is that ,even if the players are unaware of our baggage, our opponents definitely are. I can't put it any better than Chiellini did after Juve professionally, carelessly dispatched us with one burst of action. Quoting from the Guardian...

“It’s the history of Tottenham,” he said. “They always create many chances and score so much but, in the end, they miss always something to arrive at the end. We believe in history. Also yesterday in the game between Real Madrid and Paris Saint‑Germain [which Real won] – the history it’s important and the experience is important.”

Juventus have their sights on a third Champions League final in four seasons. “Four years ago, we did not have this experience but we have grown up year by year,” Chiellini said. “We believe until the end. We earned our luck. Tottenham had their chances and are a fine team but they’re on the verge of being able to win this type of game. Sometimes, you need that spark, maybe a trophy win. We had our experience and we made the most of it.”"

Our opponents *know* we tend to bottle it. They *know* that if they just keep us quiet, our mental demons will start emerging more and more as the game wears on. So it doesn't matter if our players are unaware - our opponents are aware, and they will use it to outdo us.

The third is that the same performances and the same choking in inopportune moments is still present - regardless of the changes in personnel, this team can (and does) still choke at the death when things are on the line. It happens less often, and that is tribute to how heroically Poch has tried to rebuild us....but in the end, we are still making the mistakes we made with different teams, in different eras, many years ago. Not as many, definitely. But they're still there. So surely the team is still afflicted by it, regardless of how we perceive it as fans.

Ultimately, we've been there as fans and we've seen these things happen far too often. But we're not the only ones seeing these things happen. Our opponents have seen them happen. The football world has seen them happen. And this will filter through to whichever sets of players we have, I think - one way or another.

 

[harr1984]

This is baggage WE carry as life long fans....most of this team haven't been around that long.

They probably don't even know of, let alone remember losing to Everton, Portsmouth in fa semis, losing to city in the fa Cup when they had ten men, losing to man u being 3-0 up etc etc ...you get the picture.

We've had great wins this year, wins we never imagined this club capable of.
We've had some losses but were not disgraced in the Man U or Juve losses.
We will lose, otherwise we will win the quadruple every season.

The despair you suffer, is yours, not this teams.

You’re right that the fans have suffered but this current crop have too - Vertonghen, Dembele, Kane etc they’ve already suffered plenty of these types of disappointments where we’ve fallen short in one way or another it’s not just the fans. As for the we will lose otherwise we will win the quadruple every season, I don’t understand that comment. All the other top 6 have won trophies in recent years bar us, Liverpool could well win CL this year - none of them have won the quadruple but they have all won trophies even in their poor periods. That is the difference between us and the rest...