World Cup 2026: Mexico, USA and Canada

[glorygloryeze?]

Dominated by a possession midfield.

Dominated once again again by a possessionally strong midfield, short passes and interplay galore.

Not so much out played by possession but out gunned and that France side always looked to have another gear if they needed it. Just lost too. Stronger side.

Dominated by a possession side.

Poor tactically but again dominated by a heavy possession side.

So of those losses, they all came against teams far better on the ball other than France who didn't really play that way but did have the better individuals.

The type of passers I'm referring to are the short range possession style guys. Players good at receiving on the half and heavily pressing resistant, players who can probe and just as well as they can keep it ticking.

Yes Argentina have Messi, but take him out of that team and they are still a short passing heavy possession side. That is culturally their style, they were this before Messi and will be that after Messi.

England were dominated in midfield by Norway because they have Odegard, a linker in midfield, England have no linker or player with similar attributes. England's strengths are pace and power, let's not pretend otherwise.

Yet again, you're refusing to acknowledge the players Tuchel decided to leave out of the squad: MGW, Wharton and Palmer are all players with technique and who can play possession games and link play. Ditto Trent, Grealish. Heck, one might even say Maddison.

Those previous losses weren't because England naturally lack those type of players (this isn't still the 90s LOL) but because of tactics/decisions made by the coach or the fact that the opposition have more of those type of players. Nothing wrong with that in itself, there are always tams who will be do certain things better. In international football you need both pace and power AND technique. In fact, in Latin American football circles, i'm sure i've heard Argentina being referred to as the England of that region because they often combine the two.

The approach in this world cup and vs Argentina was a managerial decision taken not based on the lack thereof of technical passers in midfield.
That loss was on Tuchel and his decision/tactics, and not because England 'lack technical passes'

 

[Bishop]

Yet again, you're refusing to acknowledge the players Tuchel decided to leave out of the squad: MGW, Wharton and Palmer are all players with technique and who can play possession games and link play. Ditto Trent, Grealish. Heck, one might even say Maddison.

Those previous losses weren't because England naturally lack those type of players (this isn't still the 90s LOL) but because of tactics/decisions made by the coach or the fact that the opposition have more of those type of players. Nothing wrong with that in itself, there are always tams who will be do certain things better. In international football you need both pace and power AND technique. In fact, in Latin American football circles, i'm sure i've heard Argentina being referred to as the England of that region because they often combine the two.

The approach in this world cup and vs Argentina was a managerial decision taken not based on the lack thereof of technical passers in midfield.
That loss was on Tuchel and his decision/tactics, and not because England 'lack technical passes'

I'm not acknowledging them, I don't see them as the solution to the problem. None of them are aggregate high ball passers into and around the lines. I'm talking players in the mould of Xavi, Iniesta, Rui Costa etc. Players who pass and move between the lines. Men who will orchestrate the play, England don't have that and none of the guys you suggested have that okay style either.

You misunderstanding and harping on something I haven't really said. England don't lack technique but they do lack aggregate possession passers. A better version of Winks if you will, that's why England lack.

Their lack of this player is why it was so easy to compress England back into their box. Even the solutions we suggest are not to win back possession but instead to bypass that press and play for the counter into the spaces left behind, using that pace and power.

Watch the final watch how Spain and Argentina will compete. It will be a battle for dominance of the football. If Argentina get an upper hand Spain's response won't be to try and play for the counter, it will be to wrestle back control of the game. Likewise the same with Argentina if they feel they are being dominated. They won't just play for the counter they will try to control the ball, slow it down, play between the lines. This is something England are never capable of doing.

 

[glorygloryeze?]

I'm not acknowledging them, I don't see them as the solution to the problem. None of them are aggregate high ball passers into and around the lines. I'm talking players in the mould of Xavi, Iniesta, Rui Costa etc. Players who pass and move between the lines. Men who will orchestrate the play, England don't have that and none of the guys you suggested have that okay style either.

You really don't see MGW or Wharton (or Grealish or even Maddison) as those type of players? Ok, so we can be clear how your judging who fits that bill, apart from Messi, who are those type of players for Argentina? Who is that for France?

You misunderstanding and harping on something I haven't really said. England don't lack technique but they do lack aggregate possession passers. A better version of Winks if you will, that's why England lack.

Anderson isn't that? Maddison isn't that? Palmer isn't? Really?

Their lack of this player is why it was so easy to compress England back into their box. Even the solutions we suggest are not to win back possession but instead to bypass that press and play for the counter into the spaces left behind, using that pace and power.

Watch the final watch how Spain and Argentina will compete. It will be a battle for dominance of the football. If Argentina get an upper hand Spain's response won't be to try and play for the counter, it will be to wrestle back control of the game. Likewise the same with Argentina if they feel they are being dominated. They won't just play for the counter they will try to control the ball, slow it down, play between the lines. This is something England are never capable of doing.

We will see whether Argentina try to turn the game into stop/start with sneaky fouls and wind up Spanish players and turn the game into a 'battle' before they start playing., like they did against England and most teams they consider an equal or more of a threat than minnows....one would think by how you describe them as though they approach the game with a "Jogo Bonito" flair and attitude lol.

Argentina can pass and move, sure. But they tried to turn Wednesday's game into a grind and battle first and foremost and only started playing football when they had to. That they were able to without much resistance was more a reflection of Tuchel and his poor approach to handling Argentina rather than any great 'Jogo Bonito"!

 

[Bishop]

You really don't see MGW or Wharton (or Grealish or even Maddison) as those type of players? Ok, so we can be clear how your judging who fits that bill, apart from Messi, who are those type of players for Argentina? Who is that for France?

No I don't see those English players as being from that mould. You're looking at this the wrong way. Wharton for example is a great switch passer and has a great eye for a pass into the space behind the line but I'm talking about the mundane. The short pass guy who passes to one player then moves into space to then receive the return pass before he then does the same to another team mate and it carries on. These are mundane passes, they aren't spectacular but they are the building blocks of a possession side.

Anderson isn't that? Maddison isn't that? Palmer isn't? Really?

All Hollywood passers who play killer balls. That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about meaningful possession, players who keep the ball, dominate the ball and keep their side ticking none of the guys you mention are that and maybe I'm not articulating my thoughts well but I'm surprised you think they are.

We will see whether Argentina try to turn the game into stop/start with sneaky fouls and wind up Spanish players and turn the game into a 'battle' before they start playing., like they did against England and most teams they consider an equal or more of a threat than minnows....one would think by how you describe them as though they approach the game with a "Jogo Bonito" flair and attitude lol.

Argentina can pass and move, sure. But they tried to turn Wednesday's game into a grind and battle first and foremost and only started playing football when they had to. That they were able to without much resistance was more a reflection of Tuchel and his poor approach to handling Argentina rather than any great 'Jogo Bonito"!

You ask who in the Argentina side is of that ilk and the answer is ALL of them. It's baked into their football culturally. I know you're older than me but are you honestly saying you never noticed at 86, 90, 94, 98, 02, 06, 10, 14, 18 and 22 WCs that Argentina tend to play a short passing game to feet with constant movement?!? You don't remember that goal they scored at the 06 WC where every member of the team touched the ball before they scored? This is what they do, it's why they creat the type of footballers they because it's imbedded into their football. I agree with you that they add physicality to that but that's South America for you, the vast majority of those teams are very physical when necessary.

I've been saying to y friends this Final is basically Spain up against Budget Spain. They play the same style albeit with some variation but it's fundamentally the same philosophy at its core.