We are the worst for diving!

[FatBloke]

I would love to see yellow cards reinforced by time in the sin bin. In hockey, players get green cards, then yellow, then red, with yellow cards carrying automatic sin bins -- ref can decide how long (within limits) depending on severity. If you get a green card, you sure as hell don't want a yellow as your side will be down to 10 men for 5-10 minutes.

Alternatively, the powers that be should recognise that, in the time since yellow cards were brought in, the list of offences has grown a lot. So why not introduce another card colour, e.g. pink, for specific offences -- kicking the ball away, timewasting, diving, taking your shirt off, etc. Means that yellows are reserved for bad tackles and professional fouls.

 

[Baleforce]

Not only is a deliberate attempt to win a penalty by deceiving the referee a completely different issue from being offside (or tugging a shirt, for that matter) but what retrospective action could you possibly bring in for an unnoticed offside, and what would be the point of doing it, even if you could think of one?

but its all cheating, the game has rules, and offences for actions outside the rules, all cheating should be equal

 

[Rorschach]

According to a post in another thread that quotes a ref, yes. You can't give a booking if there's contact, and it is indeed called exaggeration I think.

Personally I think it's unbelievably obvious just to give retrospective 3 game bans for dives, based on the unanimous decision of a panel. Because I think a) it's too much to ask referees to make the decision in real-time, and b) a yellow card isn't enough of a punishment or deterrence.

It's pathetic and actually disgusting that this hasn't been put into place given that diving has been happening for as long as I can ****ing remember and this would be such an easy solution.

Yep, I absolutely think it is as simple as this. A retrospective 3 match or more ban would be a massive deterrent. Maybe one match for 'exaggeration' and extra matches if you pretend you're injured after little or no contact. This way the flow of the game really is unaltered.

The sin bin one might be good but you really have to keep it simple - yellow = 10mins in the bin.

 

[Rorschach]

but its all cheating, the game has rules, and offences for actions outside the rules, all cheating should be equal

It depends on your definition of cheating really.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Is exaggeration different from simulation? Like Welbeck, where he felt a slight touch and decided to hurl himself at the ground.

Personally I think this is the same, and has been to the detriment of the game. Sadly unlike a proper no contact dive it's normally looked upon favourably by most observers ("every right to go down there" etc).

 

[mudshark]

but its all cheating, the game has rules, and offences for actions outside the rules, all cheating should be equal

Being offside isn't cheating, it's just being offside. Do we think we are going to "stamp out" offsides with a zero-tolerance policy? You might argue that tugging a shirt can be construed as cheating, by the letter of the law, but in a physical game, it's hardly the same thing as the deliberate deception involved in diving to win a penalty. I suppose it all depends how serious a problem you think shirt-tugging is. You could have a panel to review shirt-tugging incidents, with the power to hand out retrospective bans, but I suspect many people would regard a ban as rather a harsh sanction for a shirt-pull, so again, what would your retrospective punishment be, and what would be the point?

 

[Baleforce]

It depends on your definition of cheating really.

i suppose so, for me its anything outside of the rules, I don't understand why diving is anymore controversial than shirt pulling or intentional tripping, yes players are trying to con the ref, but they do that when they play on knowing the ball was out of play, or celebrating a goal when you know it didn't go in, in those situations people fall over themselves to blame the officials, why is diving different?

 

[Rorschach]

Being offside isn't cheating, it's just being offside. Do we think we are going to "stamp out" offsides with a zero-tolerance policy? You might argue that tugging a shirt can be construed as cheating, by the letter of the law, but in a physical game, it's hardly the same thing as the deliberate deception involved in diving to win a penalty. I suppose it all depends how serious a problem you think shirt-tugging is. You could have a panel to review shirt-tugging incidents, with the power to hand out retrospective bans, but I suspect many people would regard a ban as rather a harsh sanction for a shirt-pull, so again, what would your retrospective punishment be, and what would be the point?

That's the end of Ade and Defoe's career right there.

 

[Baleforce]

Being offside isn't cheating, it's just being offside. Do we think we are going to "stamp out" offsides with a zero-tolerance policy? You might argue that tugging a shirt can be construed as cheating, by the letter of the law, but in a physical game, it's hardly the same thing as the deliberate deception involved in diving to win a penalty. I suppose it all depends how serious a problem you think shirt-tugging is. You could have a panel to review shirt-tugging incidents, with the power to hand out retrospective bans, but I suspect many people would regard a ban as rather a harsh for a shirt-pull, so again, what would your retrospective punishment be, and what would be the point?

I have no idea, but I don't think we need to do much about diving either, we just need the refs to be better at applying the laws of the game all round

 

[mudshark]

I have no idea, but I don't think we need to do much about diving either, we just need the refs to be better at applying the laws of the game all round

I don't know, I believe there's an element of coaching players to find convincing ways of conning the ref, I think the officials are (without recourse to in-game video review) always likely to be held at a disadvantage by it, and personally, I would like to see that particular arms race stopped in its tracks.

 

[milo]

I have no idea, but I don't think we need to do much about diving either, we just need the refs to be better at applying the laws of the game all round

It's unrealistic to expect refs to see everything and they can only apply to laws when they see something. Diving is a deliberate attempt to con the referee, so it is different to the other infringements that you mention.

 

[milo]

I would love to see yellow cards reinforced by time in the sin bin. In hockey, players get green cards, then yellow, then red, with yellow cards carrying automatic sin bins -- ref can decide how long (within limits) depending on severity. If you get a green card, you sure as hell don't want a yellow as your side will be down to 10 men for 5-10 minutes.

Alternatively, the powers that be should recognise that, in the time since yellow cards were brought in, the list of offences has grown a lot. So why not introduce another card colour, e.g. pink, for specific offences -- kicking the ball away, timewasting, diving, taking your shirt off, etc. Means that yellows are reserved for bad tackles and professional fouls.

The problem with that is that it would probably make the game more defensive and a less enjoyable spectacle as a result.

 

[Baleforce]

It's unrealistic to expect refs to see everything and they can only apply to laws when they see something. Diving is a deliberate attempt to con the referee, so it is different to the other infringements that you mention.

there a lots of actions in games which I would consider a deliberate attempt to con the ref, appealing for a throw or corner when you know it came of you for example

I don't expect refs to be perfect, but I think they could be better

 

[Baleforce]

I don't know, I believe there's an element of coaching players to find convincing ways of conning the ref, I think the officials are (without recourse to in-game video review) always likely to be held at a disadvantage by it, and personally, I would like to see that particular arms race stopped in its tracks.

i'm sure there is, but i'm sure they coach players to hold shirts at corners and stand on the keepers toes as well as a myriad of other advantage seeking situations, I don't see diving as any different to this

 

[Jordinho]

there a lots of actions in games which I would consider a deliberate attempt to con the ref, appealing for a throw or corner when you know it came of you for example

I don't expect refs to be perfect, but I think they could be better

One of the things that should have happened long ago is stricter rules for behaviour. Having players surrounding the ref appealing for bookings or shouting abuse at him for not getting a decision should simply not be acceptable. The ref makes the call and you get on with the game. An additional video ref is needed for the bigger calls to make it easier for the ref. It's impossible for one man to see everything and it's a ridiculous amount of pressure on him considering the money involved and the consequences a wrong decision can have.

 

[Jordinho]

Mark Clattenburg was cleared for a second time in just over a year of abusing a player on Friday after referees’ chiefs exonerated him of “verbally insulting” England forward Adam Lallana.

The player is understood to have claimed Clattenburg addressed him with a remark of a “personal” nature, which it emerged on Friday had been: “You’re very different now since you played for England. You never used to be like this.”

Professional Game Match Officials Ltd said Clattenburg had "no case to answer" following an official complaint by Southampton against him in the wake of their 2-1 Premier League defeat at Everton on Sunday.

Saints had also asked both for an apology and for Clattenburg to be prevented from taking charge of their games until the outcome of any investigation was complete.

That investigation was swift and the outcome unequivocal, with the 38-year-old also cleared by the Football Association to remain the man in the middle for Saturday’s FA Cup third-round tie between Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/10548814/Mark-Clattenburg-has-no-case-to-answer-in-Adam-Lallana-row-as-Professional-Game-Match-Officials-back-referee.html

Sort of ties in with what I was saying. Some players, ie. Rooney, get away with so much it's ridiculous.

 

[mudshark]

i'm sure there is, but i'm sure they coach players to hold shirts at corners and stand on the keepers toes as well as a myriad of other advantage seeking situations, I don't see diving as any different to this

Well, as I said, I think it all depends how serious you think each type of offence is. If you think all offences are equally serious, then I daresay you wouldn't see the point of retrospective action for any particular type of behaviour. I suspect most people would disagree, though. I certainly do.

 

[milo]

there a lots of actions in games which I would consider a deliberate attempt to con the ref, appealing for a throw or corner when you know it came of you for example

I don't expect refs to be perfect, but I think they could be better

Have you ever reffed a game? It is phenomenally hard.

 

[Baleforce]

Have you ever reffed a game? It is phenomenally hard.

i'm not saying it isn't, but I think the standard of refereeing has declined over the last decade

 

[Jordinho]

i'm not saying it isn't, but I think the standard of refereeing has declined over the last decade

The game has gotten faster and the amount of cheating has increased IMO.