Virgin Mary, The Nativity and Me Too

[spurspinter1]

that’s the main thing for me. We know almost nothing compared to what there is to know.

covid fûcked us for 2 years plus. Yet some people believe that we have the knowledge of the origins of everything.

It's comforting to think we have everything figured out I suppose, whether you're talking to a headstrong toddler who has no grasp of the greater beyond or a local character at a pub telling everyone how the world works but is unopen to taking on any information from any other source than "wot they reckon".

Covid is an interesting one, for people fortunate enough to survive through it with a roof other their head and more time on their hands ideally should have used to time fruitfully to learn, develop AMD grow but that's the same for each and every day.

There are so many distractions we are faced with for our species development though as you may have indicated unless I've missed the point is the "current" economic climate, poor education facilities/ approach, social media (which is place is a form of) to name but a few...

 

[spurspinter1]

Doing the right thing because heaven/hell/GHod.

From what I know atheists do not commit more crimes than religious people. Don't know what they says about religious people if they have toys extra motivation/threat to do good and still aren't better. Would they just rape and pillage if not for their faith? I doubt it.

But no doubt, for some people there's a positive effect there.

I also think there are clear downsides.
-Basing said morality on the interpretation of ancient unchanging texts. That's really not a good thing.
-Injecting moral certainty when there should be conflict or dilemma. Nothing quite like someone who is morally certain with the "power of GHod" behind them and at the same time "wrong" (in my or your opinion).
-Making a religious institution and faith more important than moral choices and their consequences. See child sex scandals as an example. Devastating consequences.

Although there are positives, for me the negatives seem stronger. Though I can't prove that, just my impression.

Nah that's all total gonad*s mate

Just kidding, as ever, and I am starting to feel like a right teacher's pet but very interesting points that I I can't dance with, there are big concerns and always has been regarding Organised religion but showing a total lack of respect to it (not aimed at you of course) doesn't help as the injustices / atrocities are just committee in more of a clandestine manner.

It's tricky debating with someone who has the supposed power of GHod behind them as their beliefs are linked to their ego / raison d'etre / reason for getting out of bed as @Grays_1890 eluded to previously.

The crime rates are interesting in reference to atheists versus people of faith but how a crime is labelled as such changes (ref. Rosa Parks) plus the recording systems aren't water tight either so it's tough for me to take much from the records..


Some people need the certainty of the scriptures but don't appreciate the lack of proof is needed for faith to be present - As someone who has shifting opinions / views (which we should all have to a certain degree to indicate a willingness to learn) it can turn everything in to a battle to find authenticity but to not be a chameleon shifting side of the fence depending on which way the wind is blowing, but also wanting to understand why people hold certain beliefs, it can be tiring but it's good fun as well I suppose!

 

[Grays_1890]

That's the trick though isn't it, the "if" GHod is genuine is the basis of faith, if we all knew factually there was a GHod then it would be common knowledge and there would be no leap of faith required, it would be common sense. Some label it as a kind of catch 22 which I appreciate as it is a frustrating one when viewed in a certain way.

Sorry bud I'm not fully seeing the link with our current understanding of the universe being infinite to hypothetically coming to know there is a GHod.

And we all know the answer to the meaning of life, at least one of the questions of the ages, it's 42, well that's what the computer said anyways

Sorry maybe wasn't as clear as I should have been. I meant that that if GHod was provable I wouldn't be against it for sure because the science of the universe being infinite is one that my mind gets blown away with in other ways, so it would at least close that chapter so to speak

 

[Lilbaz]

Simple question. In this day and age should we still be celebrating the story of a child (Mary was 13 or 14) being raped by a deity and forced to keep his child?

Or should we really now be cancelling (in its modern meaning) the nativity?

According to wikepedia she was born 18bc in herodian kingdom of judea. So would have been 18. She was also married to joseph so was of consensual age.

 

[Lilbaz]

Sorry maybe wasn't as clear as I should have been. I meant that that if GHod was provable I wouldn't be against it for sure because the science of the universe being infinite is one that my mind gets blown away with in other ways, so it would at least close that chapter so to speak

Scientists and mathematicians agree. Many hate infinite and think it just means the equation is wrong somehow.

Even something like pi and euclids number being infinite just means they are infinitely wrong. It's just you can't make a triangle perfectly measure a curve. Achiles and the tortose (zenos paradox) is a good example of infinite being correct on paper but in reality is bs.

 

[Lilbaz]

If we ignore that she was a child because that's modern standards. (of course an omnipotent being should have a good grasp of all moral standards, but let's not get into the weeds of omnipotence).

Making someone pregnant without their consent, without their knowledge, however it happens surely is a violation. Rape may be the wrong word, but violated seems too weak if anything.

It's a strange thing to be celebrating. Only a deity could be celebrated for such an act. To tell it to children as a happy story, without qualifiers, claiming it to be a true story. It's only seen as fine to do because it's been the standard for a long time.

We talking about the same GHod that sent a flood that killed everyone on the planet (estimated in the billions) apart from noah and his family?

 

[Grays_1890]

We talking about the same GHod that sent a flood that killed everyone on the planet (estimated in the billions) apart from noah and his family?

And had storage for all their delicate diets and perfect climate control. (C) Jim Jeffries

 

[Lilbaz]

And had storage for all their delicate diets and perfect climate control. (C) Jim Jeffries

Tbf we can't really have a go at him from that. But cutting the life expectancy of humans from around 700 years to 70 and killing billions was a pretty dingdong move. Oh and sentencing people to burning in hell for eternity just because they say they don't believe in the holy spirit is also a bit harsh.

 

[Grays_1890]

Tbf we can't really have a go at him from that. But cutting the life expectancy of humans from around 700 years to 70 and killing billions was a pretty dingdong move. Oh and sentencing people to burning in hell for eternity just because they say they don't believe in the holy spirit is also a bit harsh.

If there was a GHod and he created man in his own image, he would have to be one awful ugly, schizophrenic, malicious, deranged, dude, to allow his children to treat and be treated as some are today.
He would make Hannibal Lecter look like an honest politician and they are are rare as rocking horse sh1t

 

[Lilbaz]

If there was a GHod and he created man in his own image, he would have to be one awful ugly, schizophrenic, malicious, deranged, dude, to allow his children to treat and be treated as some are today.
He would make Hannibal Lecter look like an honest politician and they are are rare as rocking horse sh1t

Also didn't like shellfish or bacon.

 

[Grays_1890]

Also didn't like shellfish or bacon.

Thou'll shall not like the foods of Chas and Dave

 

[spurspinter1]

Sorry maybe wasn't as clear as I should have been. I meant that that if GHod was provable I wouldn't be against it for sure because the science of the universe being infinite is one that my mind gets blown away with in other ways, so it would at least close that chapter so to speak

Ahh I think I get you but it's expanding to a certain extent and will then collapse in on itself rather than being infinite unless I am mistaken (which has happened before...), on a similar note I went to a Brian Cox show about black holes (98% percent went straight over my head) but the theory of the infinite past is a mind blowing one for me, even nothing is something etc

Not to be pedantic but if GHod was proved to exist it'd be a bit of an odd move to be against whatever GHod it was unless you're a glutton for punishment!

 

[Grays_1890]

Ahh I think I get you but it's expanding to a certain extent and will then collapse in on itself rather than being infinite unless I am mistaken (which has happened before...), on a similar note I went to a Brian Cox show about black holes (98% percent went straight over my head) but the theory of the infinite past is a mind blowing one for me, even nothing is something etc

Not to be pedantic but if GHod was proved to exist it'd be a bit of an odd move to be against whatever GHod it was unless you're a glutton for punishment!

Oh I would jump on the bandwagon if it was proved haha

 

[Gutter Boy]

Ahh I think I get you but it's expanding to a certain extent and will then collapse in on itself rather than being infinite unless I am mistaken (which has happened before...), on a similar note I went to a Brian Cox show about black holes (98% percent went straight over my head) but the theory of the infinite past is a mind blowing one for me, even nothing is something etc

Not to be pedantic but if GHod was proved to exist it'd be a bit of an odd move to be against whatever GHod it was unless you're a glutton for punishment!

Nah - take the His Dark Materials approach and try to kill him/her. Throw off the yoke