US soldiers rape shame

[billyiddo]

the date on the story linked in the OP is 2009 and it refers to a case from 2006 i wonder why it's popping up on peoples news feeds in 2013

Rape is a disgusting act and im sure incidents like those mentioned happen far more than we'd like to think and id hope that anyone capable of such disgusting acts get what's coming to them.

 

[raboner]

14 year old FFS. Makes me sick.

 

[braineclipse]

Sad to read that. The limited amount of Iraqi's I have spoken to hated Saddam, but also never went back home after he was toppled.

We aren't a vile species, we are a species. Brutality is part of nature, and yet some people seem determined to deny the obvious when it comes to the human race.

I don't think war comes into it much. Rape happens outside of war also. I think when you get groups of young men together the inevitable can happen, especially with them encouraging each other on. The amount of gang rapes that take place in London is under reported and shocking. We need to be looking at our problems at home more than abroad.

As for Iraq, it's old news. Never thought we should have got involved in the first place. We are not the world's police force and I don't subscribe to the brotherhood of man. You look after your own and what happens to everyone else happens for the good and the bad. If they genuinely thought Saddam was a threat, then they were right to go in and take him out but the problem with modern warfare is this ridiculous notion that we should then feel guilty or be responsible for rebuilding the country. I don't subscribe to needless cruelty towards any living thing, but you protect your own and if that means others suffer then so be it. I don't feel guilty for thinking or believing that.

But there is little doubt in my mind that Blair knew there was no WMD, Robin Cook certainly had access to the evidence and didn't believe it, and as such there was no reason to go in there at all. Even if we had proof that Saddam was killing thousands of his own people a day we should simply have stayed away because it simply isn't our business to be involved.

The psychological problems that develop as a result of war are well documented. You don't think being in a war does something to people that can push them over the edge?

Did you have the same non-interventionist attitude during the NATO operations in the former Yugoslavia?

Even if I accepted your premise that protecting your own at the cost of the suffering of other people is acceptable (I don't) that in itself is not a sufficient argument against interventions. We've seen what results from failed states, we've seen the problems that arise when things go from bad to worse in a country. The violence and suffering that follows is often spread.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

The psychological problems that develop as a result of war are well documented. You don't think being in a war does something to people that can push them over the edge?

Did you have the same non-interventionist attitude during the NATO operations in the former Yugoslavia?

Even if I accepted your premise that protecting your own at the cost of the suffering of other people is acceptable (I don't) that in itself is not a sufficient argument against interventions. We've seen what results from failed states, we've seen the problems that arise when things go from bad to worse in a country. The violence and suffering that follows is often spread.

For sure, and not just war. Any series of events that provokes a strong emotional response can definitely push people over the edge, and it doesn't get much stronger than your life being in danger or seeing your friends hurt or killed.

I did not believe we should have got involved in the Yugoslavian civil war, and that pained me because I loved Yugoslavia and although it was obvious that different regions weren't keen on each other I didn't think it would go the way it did. I thought it was like Scotland and England. Should we have got involved? Not in my opinion, it just wasn't our beef.

As for interventions, clearly it is on a case by case basis but the most important thing is will it significantly hurt our country? And I don't mean just in combat, but economically too. If the answer is no, then we should stay out of it. Getting involved with Afghanistan and Iraq were dreadful decisions by our leadership. It was nothing to do with us and it's cost a lot of lives and brought increased terror to our doorstep. So in this case getting involved has caused violence and suffering in our own shores. Not good at all.

 

[COYS]

For sure, and not just war. Any series of events that provokes a strong emotional response can definitely push people over the edge, and it doesn't get much stronger than your life being in danger or seeing your friends hurt or killed.

I did not believe we should have got involved in the Yugoslavian civil war, and that pained me because I loved Yugoslavia and although it was obvious that different regions weren't keen on each other I didn't think it would go the way it did. I thought it was like Scotland and England. Should we have got involved? Not in my opinion, it just wasn't our beef.

As for interventions, clearly it is on a case by case basis but the most important thing is will it significantly hurt our country? And I don't mean just in combat, but economically too. If the answer is no, then we should stay out of it. Getting involved with Afghanistan and Iraq were dreadful decisions by our leadership. It was nothing to do with us and it's cost a lot of lives and brought increased terror to our doorstep. So in this case getting involved has caused violence and suffering in our own shores. Not good at all.

We can't just pull out of the Afghanistan War. In 1949 we signed the North Atlantic Treaty and article 5 states that an attack on one nation shall be considered an attack against them all, and on September 11 2001, the USA was attacked.

We're their allies and they're our allies so we have every obligation to kill the bastards in Afghanistan.

 

[thfcsteff]

As I thought you're more interested in voicing your opinion than entering into any form of discussion. You didn't even read my entire post did you?

As for your patronising response I'll play along.

Yes they are fake pictures. Maybe you're too young to remember but there was a massive storm about these pictures in the media in 2003, with several media sources using the footage (it was actually video, not just pictures). It then transpired it was from a porn site.

Am I going to deny this sort of things takes place? After I already said in the post you replied to that "The story is real unfortunately"? What do you think?

Your sensitivity is blinding. How would you like me to ask you in the future? Sorry to have upset you.

As for the age comment, I clearly remember the Mirror storm which caused Morgan to lose his job, but I also clearly recall plenty of thoroughly debasing photos from Abu Gharib.

Let me now formally apologize for not having a good enough memory to remember which were 'fake' and which weren't; my bad, I certainly didn't spend enough time memorizing and deciphering.

 

[thfcsteff]

Sad to read that. The limited amount of Iraqi's I have spoken to hated Saddam, but also never went back home after he was toppled.

We aren't a vile species, we are a species. Brutality is part of nature, and yet some people seem determined to deny the obvious when it comes to the human race.

I don't think war comes into it much. Rape happens outside of war also. I think when you get groups of young men together the inevitable can happen, especially with them encouraging each other on. The amount of gang rapes that take place in London is under reported and shocking. We need to be looking at our problems at home more than abroad.

As for Iraq, it's old news. Never thought we should have got involved in the first place. We are not the world's police force and I don't subscribe to the brotherhood of man. You look after your own and what happens to everyone else happens for the good and the bad. If they genuinely thought Saddam was a threat, then they were right to go in and take him out but the problem with modern warfare is this ridiculous notion that we should then feel guilty or be responsible for rebuilding the country. I don't subscribe to needless cruelty towards any living thing, but you protect your own and if that means others suffer then so be it. I don't feel guilty for thinking or believing that.

But there is little doubt in my mind that Blair knew there was no WMD, Robin Cook certainly had access to the evidence and didn't believe it, and as such there was no reason to go in there at all. Even if we had proof that Saddam was killing thousands of his own people a day we should simply have stayed away because it simply isn't our business to be involved.

In the spirit of discussion...

Would you not agree that emancipation/altruism had nothing to do with Iraq? The industrial military complex needed feeding (especially post cold war) and this was a fine opportunity to feed it. Let's face it. If the west was interested in altruistic intervention, we could all list many countries with horrific conditions.

As for the sentence bolded above, the reason should be trying to rebuild countries we've intervened in, is to quell the breeding ground for extremism to breed. But, as a society, we're not as specifically interested in rebuilding countries as we are in establishing a presence. It's a shame all the way around.

 

[thfcsteff]

We can't just pull out of the Afghanistan War. In 1949 we signed the North Atlantic Treaty and article 5 states that an attack on one nation shall be considered an attack against them all, and on September 11 2001, the USA was attacked.

We're their allies and they're our allies so we have every obligation to kill the bastards in Afghanistan.

Who are 'the bastards' in your eyes? Everyone?

 

[COYS]

Who are 'the bastards' in your eyes? Everyone?

Definitely not civilians. I was talking about the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and everyone who poses a threat to our national security.

 

[Pandy]

We can't just pull out of the Afghanistan War. In 1949 we signed the North Atlantic Treaty and article 5 states that an attack on one nation shall be considered an attack against them all, and on September 11 2001, the USA was attacked.

We're their allies and they're our allies so we have every obligation to kill the bastards in Afghanistan.

Ah yes the convenient 'attack' on one's own people that gives the public backing to go to war. Most people, especially Americans (the country is so vast, many don't even have passports), are like Jumpers, they don't really care what goes on outside their country as long as things are okay at home. But if some terrorists come to their country and kill their citizens, then they get angry.

It happened in the First World War with the sinking of the Lusitania, again at Pearl Harbour in the Second World War, US submarines were 'shot down' by the Vietnamese in the Gulf of Tonkin. How genuine these 'attacks' are, I'm unsure. Not saying they were planned by the US necessarily, but I think they were complicit (at least in some). There is plenty of info on 'Operation Northwoods' as well, another of these 'false flag' operations (attacks on one's own people to engender support for war) that was never carried out against/'by' Cuba. It is a common war strategy that was even used by Caesar so the legend has it...

America really do have a despicable recent history that never gets heard over the cries of 'the American Dream!', 'Freedom!' and 'Democracy!'. Most countries have done similarly disgusting things (not just false flags, there is a list longer than my arm), but few are afforded such a pedal stool (certainly in British culture). Disgraceful acts are kind of understandable though, when you remember they were a part of the British Empire!!

Hello NSA.

 

[Seedy Ron]

We can't just pull out of the Afghanistan War. In 1949 we signed the North Atlantic Treaty and article 5 states that an attack on one nation shall be considered an attack against them all, and on September 11 2001, the USA was attacked.

We're their allies and they're our allies so we have every obligation to kill the bastards in Afghanistan.

Don't remember a huge number of American boots on Falkland soil when the Argies attacked us? Besides which, as I recall, most of the terrorists from Sept. 11th, including Bin Laden, were of Saudi origin, why didn't we roll into Riyadh? (I know the answer to that one btw).

 

[COYS]

Don't remember a huge number of American boots on Falkland soil when the Argies attacked us? Besides which, as I recall, most of the terrorists from Sept. 11th, including Bin Laden, were of Saudi origin, why didn't we roll into Riyadh? (I know the answer to that one btw).

Did we need the whole of NATO to take back a few islands? Maybe if we weren't able to take them back after a year, but for a war that lasted only a few months, all it took was a brave, British force.

Bin Laden was exiled from Saudi Arabia and disowned by his family, along with many other Al-Qaeda terrorists.

 

[Gordinho]

Did we need the whole of NATO to take back a few islands? Maybe if we weren't able to take them back after a year, but for a war that lasted only a few months, all it took was a brave, British force.

Logistically fudged due to short notice and distance we weren't able to sustain a "conflict" had it lasted many days longer without outside help (for outside help read USA help) and we'd been getting support behind the scenes from them anyway while they maintained a publicly neutral stance. Allegedly of course.

Not putting ourselves down, just remarking that it took a little more than good old British spunk and indefatigable Tommies surviving on Woodbines and NAAFI tea.

 

[thfcsteff]

Definitely not civilians. I was talking about the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and everyone who poses a threat to our national security.

fair enough.

I think a better way of doing this (personally) would be to deny them converts and finances, but we are in agreement that they must be stopped.

 

[Gifter]

Ah yes the convenient 'attack' on one's own people that gives the public backing to go to war. Most people, especially Americans (the country is so vast, many don't even have passports), are like Jumpers, they don't really care what goes on outside their country as long as things are okay at home. But if some terrorists come to their country and kill their citizens, then they get angry.

It happened in the First World War with the sinking of the Lusitania, again at Pearl Harbour in the Second World War, US submarines were 'shot down' by the Vietnamese in the Gulf of Tonkin. How genuine these 'attacks' are, I'm unsure. Not saying they were planned by the US necessarily, but I think they were complicit (at least in some). There is plenty of info on 'Operation Northwoods' as well, another of these 'false flag' operations (attacks on one's own people to engender support for war) that was never carried out against/'by' Cuba. It is a common war strategy that was even used by Caesar so the legend has it...

America really do have a despicable recent history that never gets heard over the cries of 'the American Dream!', 'Freedom!' and 'Democracy!'. Most countries have done similarly disgusting things (not just false flags, there is a list longer than my arm), but few are afforded such a pedal stool (certainly in British culture). Disgraceful acts are kind of understandable though, when you remember they were a part of the British Empire!!

Hello NSA.

Good post.

The rest is not really in response to you Pandy.

This thread, like others of this nature, must have the invisible war linked - http://invisiblewarmovie.com/

I believe people are good, but too easily led by the media. If we allow the leaders to be parasitic scum, is it any surprise that the world view they create/manipulate manifests as reality because of peoples reaction to it.

The way the world perceives itself today is what is created tomorrow. More and more people see that there is a very elegant trap laid out for every person on earth, once enough see this it can be removed peacefully.

War on Terra (Earth).

[video=youtube;VQQXO1bTEOs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQQXO1bTEOs[/video]