*** Tottenham vs Rochdale OMT ***

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

That team had 3 issues that stopped them from blowing away Rochdale with ease

- Lack of a playmaker, with our current team, either Eriksen or Lamela needs to start, in this case it should have been Lamela
- Llorente's ineffectiveness
- A few key players seriously under par performances - Llorente, Toby, Rose, Wanyama, Winks, Son all come to mind.

Start Lamela, Winks and Wanyama not have a mare and that would have been a stroll, regardless of play time as shadow 11.

I agree with your point about Llorentes form and other players under performing, but we shouldn't need a playmaker to beat and div 1 side. The under strength teams we field always lack any fluidity which is a major part of our style and that only come from playing with the same group regularly, we see the same problem with England sides.

 

[milo]

I agree with your point about Llorentes form and other players under performing, but we shouldn't need a playmaker to beat and div 1 side. The under strength teams we field always lack any fluidity which is a major part of our style and that only come from playing with the same group regularly, we see the same problem with England sides.

I think that your first two points contradict each other. At our best we are a fluid team, it should hardly be a surprise that we lack fluidity when we do not have a playmaker in the team.

 

[alekaras]

Jesus, as many pages for the Rochdale match thread as the win over Arsenal and more pages than the United win.

Disappointed with the result because it’s the most we deserved and the manager and players deserve some criticism for it. That said, I’m still hugely positive about them and am looking forward to the rest of the season. My son is 5 and he’s just getting into it now. He doesn’t know how fudging good he has it. When I was growing up, I had the Sugar years and mid table mediocrity at best every season.

COYS.

That's cause I like to make my OMTs tight and efficient.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

My point was we had no fluidity, having a playmaker would have made little difference when there no movement, most teams in div1 seem to get by without playmakers and the difference in the ability of our players to theirs should have been enough to win on the day. Eriksen may have made a difference, but we didnt seem capable to passing or controlling the ball and I feel confident we will continue to stuggle when we make so many changes, but many seem to think the shirts can win games and we can throw any XI on to the pitch.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I'm not arguing for him, I don't think Sissoko is a good player.

However, I watched the game and thought
- Winks had a stinker (not his first since returning)
- Llorente could/should be replaced by an academy player
- Wanyama is miles off getting his first team spot back
- Poch knew exactly what he was doing by not playing Toby against Juve
- Rose was slow, ineffective and took 75 minutes to get involved
- Son had one of his off days at the office

Yet half the comments are about Sissoko .. that mate is purely bias, and looking for it.

Not at all. I pointed to Llorente and Son before I mentioned Wanyama, made the same observation about Rose and said the others were largely average.

Any further comment on Sissoko has come from more specific conversation.

That youve zeroed in on a comment on Sissoko to jump to his defence - not THATS bias.

 

[thfcsteff]

Rose did exactly what a player should do and what (I would imagine) Pochettino coaches him to do. The defence moves in a unit. if a player goes towards the ball then the rest of the defence shift over. The player that scored was Wanyama's, Wanyama was alongside him but gave up on tracking the run. Had Wanyama tracked that run then there is practically no way that the opposition could've scored from that attack. Rose did exactly the right thing in covering the central player who was left unmarked by Foyth. This is where having some coaching knowledge is useful Scara as you then pick out the players who really cost you goals through poor defending.

I would imagine that Pochettino will be absolutely fuming at both Wanyama and Son after that game. Both had abandoned their defensive duties with us being only a minute away from the win.

The thing is, Rose is one of two in that backline you'd call a "senior professional" so it is not enough to do what he's coached to do. He has to read the situation as it unfolds. That's what you want experienced defenders to do. A quick look behind as the play unfolds will tell him Wanyama's on a walkabout towards the ball and that Son (who is the most culpable IMO) are nowhere, at which moment he has to make a decision. Even one step back puts doubt into the attacker as he is forced to make a decision WHERE to play the ball as opposed to having the decision made for him. EXPERIENCED defending there gives a much better chance of the moment passing without danger. Rose made it easy IMO, albeit he was left in it by our midfield. Watch Hill's run. If Rose just checks his movement and holds the space between both players, Hill would be in doubt. Instead, Rose hurtles about.

I have coached/my son is pro coach, and whilst on paper you are not wrong, in the game situation I believe you are letting Rose (a senior pro) off far too easily.

Of course, I think Toby has caused the whole collapse with a shocking piece of movement. He moves into an area he is simply not required to go, leaving the knock-on behind him. IF he makes that move, he MUST WIN HIS CHALLENGE/HEADER!!!! Thus for me it was a systemic collapse. The player who escapes all responsibility is Foyth, because as the junior he IS entitled to follow coaching protocol and cover Toby. I will go further and say that hopefully people now understand why we are in no rush to pay Toby 110k a week. This is not his first mistake of the season, it is his second injury-prone season, and our future lies with younger. Personally-speaking, if he wanted to head to Spain I'd let him in the summer, providing we can get the players we want in first. Otherwise, he remains but we don't pay him 110k.

 

[thfcsteff]

I agree. I also think Sissoko could have done better. Lamela and Trippier had the right side fairly well covered, but then Sissoko decides to join them and leave his central midfield spot. Then he decides to stand off the Rochdale wide man and was caught completely out of position.

Had he been in position he too could have tracked a runner, but instead he's all the way out on the right. At least if you leave your position you have to use the advantage that creates when overloaded on that side. Get close to the opponent, try to make a difference. Not just stand off in cover.

bricky goal to concede, in a game of several below par performances. We'll get another chance at home and it shouldn't damage our season.

Sissoko doesn't exactly do the greatest thing imaginable, but it gives those behind/beside him even less of an excuse to get sucked across. What the hell was Toby doing moving into that space? Had he held his man, that is a comfortable header clear. Instead he got caught. If my memory serves me, he made a similar positional error at Old Trafford, pushing way up on Lukaku at the half-way line, failing to win the header and leaving a huge hole behind him. Wanyama is similarly poor, but Sonny (and I love the bloke) is probably the most culpable because he simply does nothing. I still think Rose was naive and could've used his experience to play the space a bit better/try to hold both. He makes the attacker's decision for him by racing in to cover Foyth's man tight and leaving two behind him.

 

[thfcsteff]

That wasn't a lack of knowledge that was a lack of watching.

When I looked up, Rose was leaving his man to go and mark someone who wasn't very dangerous - a terrible decision on his part unless he knew there was cover behind him.

Other mistakes had to have been made to get there, but Rose could have easily saved the situation with some decent decision making. There's no way Poch will have told Rose to rigidly stick to a tight back 4 no matter what the circumstances, that would be of no use at all.

There's no amount of training or experience that will allow halfwits to understand situations more than their betters. Sherwood and Shearer both have coaching training and experience so you'll have to do a lot more than just say the words "coaching experience" to make a good argument. You'll need to demonstrate the the person with coaching experience is of reasonable intelligence, that those training them also were and that they were trained in a manner relevant to modern football - especially if that experience has come in the UK. There are simply far too many halfwits reaching relatively high levels in football for that training and experience to be of value in itself.

On the money, I could not agree more.

 

[braineclipse]

Sissoko doesn't exactly do the greatest thing imaginable, but it gives those behind/beside him even less of an excuse to get sucked across. What the hell was Toby doing moving into that space? Had he held his man, that is a comfortable header clear. Instead he got caught. If my memory serves me, he made a similar positional error at Old Trafford, pushing way up on Lukaku at the half-way line, failing to win the header and leaving a huge hole behind him. Wanyama is similarly poor, but Sonny (and I love the bloke) is probably the most culpable because he simply does nothing. I still think Rose was naive and could've used his experience to play the space a bit better/try to hold both. He makes the attacker's decision for him by racing in to cover Foyth's man tight and leaving two behind him.

Alderweireld has to come across, there's a fairly open opponent there who can be found with a relatively easy pass.

Had Sissoko charged into the Rochdale player when he came across Trippier could have covered that space. Instead Sissoko goes across then does nothing.

 

[thfcsteff]

Scara - go back 3 seconds from that image you posted and you see the goal scorer starting to make his run. Wanyama is slightly goal side of him at this point and looking directly at him. He simply can't be bothered to track the run, completely inexcusable and the direct cause of the goal. If Wanyama tracks the run, Rochdale do not get a numerical advantge in the box and it is almost impossible for them to score. Here is the image showing that:

Now here is an image of our positioning as the cross is hit:

Alderweireld, Foyth and Rose are pretty much in perfect positions to defend the opposition's three players in the box. They are in a good line, all goal side and all can see both their player and the ball. Any coach would be pleased with their positions in this scenario with the ball being crossed into the box.

The problem is the overload that Rochdale have engineered due to several of our players deciding that they are above having to defend. Blaming Rose for that goal as you did, shows a lack of knowledge here, the goalscorer is clearly Wanyama's player to pick up and the goal a direct result of him failing to do that.

We have established that both Wanyama and then Son failed to track the runners into the box (there is another!)...so hooray! NOW, given that is the situation, what happens NEXT is that those who are there need to make split decisions I expect my senior defenders to make smart ones. Your last image shows Rose in a perfect position at that moment. Seconds later the runner(s) are in behind him. IF he checks his movement, he gives himself a fighting chance at defending either Foyth's man or the one behind him. He might even, by holding ground better, check the movement of the runner off his back. Your persistence in this "lack of knowledge' thing only shows you up. By your "expert judgement" from the moment Wanyama (and Son) failed to track runners, we were going to concede. the fact remains that two senior players made rash errors of judgement (again, Toby has no need to move up on the man like he did, as even if he receives the ball to get, he can still stand him up/use his experience to win the one-on-one)...

 

[NLS]

With Wigan beating Emirates Marketing Project we must take the FA cup more seriously now...

I do believe that on current form we are now the best team.left in the competition..

COYS.

 

[thfcsteff]

Alderweireld has to come across, there's a fairly open opponent there who can be found with a relatively easy pass.

Had Sissoko charged into the Rochdale player when he came across Trippier could have covered that space. Instead Sissoko goes across then does nothing.

I disagree. Toby can stand him up IF the opponent receives the ball. He is naive. the man on the ball sees our defensive panic and has an easy dink to the far side of the box. I maintain that had both held their positions a little better, it gives the opponent decisions to make as opposed to making them for them. It was a catalogue of naive (and lazy) defensive errors, but one thing there, even with everything going tits up, I want to force the League One club to make decisions in that situation and not offer them a red carpet walkway to our goal.

I guarantee that am fully match-fit and tuned Toby Alderweireld does not make that movement (of course I cannot "guarantee" but you know what I mean )...

if nothing else, this proves why football is such a great game (we all see things in different ways) and we both know that Poch has dialed them all up and left right appropriate messages in their in-boxes!!!!!!

Truth be told, I think it is a fine result for football (I love to see lower league clubs get boosts) and I think our squad players need proper match-practice!!!!

 

[Raziel]

Not at all. I pointed to Llorente and Son before I mentioned Wanyama, made the same observation about Rose and said the others were largely average.

Any further comment on Sissoko has come from more specific conversation.

That youve zeroed in on a comment on Sissoko to jump to his defence - not THATS bias.

Not defending the guy and too lazy to go back to count the threads ...

My perception is the majority of player conversation on this thread post game (not all by you) is Sissoko focused ... vs. the majority of other players who had a bricker day at office.

 

[Bullet]

on current form we are now the best team.left

Depends whether you mean the first team that battled Pool, Utd, Juve etc.
Or the reserves that struggle to test the goalkeepers of League 1 teams.

 

[alekaras]

39 pages about our brick performance and City are out of the Cup to their bogey team, even though they had 5 starters in their staring XI and brought another 2 on later in the match. Yes, they were down to 10 men at halftime, but it was a League 1 side. So let's keep some perspective here about our game.

P.S. Magic of the cup.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

39 pages about our brick performance and City are out of the Cup to their bogey team, even though they had 5 starters in their staring XI and brought another 2 on later in the match. Yes, they were down to 10 men at halftime, but it was a League 1 side. So let's keep some perspective here about our game.

P.S. Magic of the cup.

Deservedly down to 10 men.

 

[Mikey10]

I’ll be really disappointed if we don’t make the final at least now.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I’ll be really disappointed if we don’t make the final at least now.

Depends on the semi final draw, but if Leicester could beat Chelsea, I think that ones 50/50, then the competition is blown wide open.

We just have to stop making the mistakes, only rest half the team at most and we should be in the pot for the semis.

 

[alekaras]

Depends on the semi final draw, but if Leicester could beat Chelsea, I think that ones 50/50, then the competition is blown wide open.

We just have to stop making the mistakes, only rest half the team at most and we should be in the pot for the semis.

I think you will see more of the first team as we progress. That being said, if we're deep in the CL and still fighting for a place in the top 4, it may end up being a case of prioritizing CL/Top-4 again. But I would be more confident of our second string doing better as the season progresses, given all these replays we've had have given them a chance to get more match fit and gel a bit.

 

[braineclipse]

I think you will see more of the first team as we progress. That being said, if we're deep in the CL and still fighting for a place in the top 4, it may end up being a case of prioritizing CL/Top-4 again. But I would be more confident of our second string doing better as the season progresses, given all these replays we've had have given them a chance to get more match fit and gel a bit.

And if that happens we'll be in a stronger position thanks to giving game time to squad players in this game and the Newport games.