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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

To think that Frank swapped a player who’s developing well under him but not putting the ball in the back of the net, for a
More experienced out and out striker. Gosh what an idiot 😂

We should have started Solanke at the weekend (given him 45-60 minutes) and left Tel in the squad to start tonight.
 
It’s been the theme since the first game of the season: our play in the final third isn’t at the required level. Some of that may be on Frank, but there are also clear confidence and quality issues with the attacking players.

Over the long term, I think Frank is excellent at developing players. How many top attackers has Brentford sold after he turned them into dynamite? In the short term, though, he doesn’t seem able to transform players overnight. Managers like Redknapp or Pochettino are probably better at injecting immediate confidence and belief. Frank, on the other hand, tends to deliver more permanent skill development, but it takes time.


It is a very tough ask to turn the tanker around without senior players and a fan base who aren't on your side. We'll be in the game tonight, but will probably lack that bit of quality again. If the fans get behind the side, anything is possible.

I really wish it was just that, go watch some of the youtube analysis stuff on Frank's Spurs, some by licensed coaches

- There is no play out pattern from defense
- There is no patterns of play/triangles to either move the ball, or retain possession
- There is no movement or expected runs ahead of player in possession, you see this when players are looking up and there literally is no pass on
- Our mid/low block is fudging useless, e.g. our standard 4-4-2 midblock against Villa was done by 2 passes through the middle (that fudging block is designed to block the middle and force the pass out wide), our low block allows opposition players to take shots from outside box (zone 14)
- Porro & Kudus have the highest and 2nd highest amount of crosses in the PL, when we typically only have 1 player in the box

And I could literally go on and on, we could talk about the horrendous subs, the freezing out of players, the fact that Bissouma who has been away from Frank's training actually looked better than our other players. Our players literally looked uncoached.

Why? will probably be speculation, nothing about Frank's system at Brentford should require top PL level players 6 months to grasp/understand, and even if it did, we should have had a good game or two where it clicked by now. The simplest answer is probably the most likely, i.e. our players where underwhelmed by his appointment, his concepts and coaching and don't want to play this brick "don't lose" football, that combined with the PL this season is even more about physicality and running, Frank's passive approach gets overrun every time (not a coincidence that when we do chase 2-0 down and up the tempo, we look significantly better).

All to say, the club should have seen this 2 months ago and made a call, and if they didn't make the call, be damn sure they had alternatives (interim/long term) lined up.
 
I really wish it was just that, go watch some of the youtube analysis stuff on Frank's Spurs, some by licensed coaches

- There is no play out pattern from defense
- There is no patterns of play/triangles to either move the ball, or retain possession
- There is no movement or expected runs ahead of player in possession, you see this when players are looking up and there literally is no pass on
- Our mid/low block is fudging useless, e.g. our standard 4-4-2 midblock against Villa was done by 2 passes through the middle (that fudging block is designed to block the middle and force the pass out wide), our low block allows opposition players to take shots from outside box (zone 14)
- Porro & Kudus have the highest and 2nd highest amount of crosses in the PL, when we typically only have 1 player in the box

And I could literally go on and on, we could talk about the horrendous subs, the freezing out of players, the fact that Bissouma who has been away from Frank's training actually looked better than our other players. Our players literally looked uncoached.

Why? will probably be speculation, nothing about Frank's system at Brentford should require top PL level players 6 months to grasp/understand, and even if it did, we should have had a good game or two where it clicked by now. The simplest answer is probably the most likely, i.e. our players where underwhelmed by his appointment, his concepts and coaching and don't want to play this brick "don't lose" football, that combined with the PL this season is even more about physicality and running, Frank's passive approach gets overrun every time (not a coincidence that when we do chase 2-0 down and up the tempo, we look significantly better).

All to say, the club should have seen this 2 months ago and made a call, and if they didn't make the call, be damn sure they had alternatives (interim/long term) lined up.

I have watched one of those nonsense vids that was posted here. It was such gonads tbh. Of course our build up play could be better, but we do move the ball forward through midfield as well as a lot of side. We're certainally not excellent, but not terrible in build up. But when we reach the final third we are sub par. That is clear from watching litterally every game this season. It was evident from the first, second, and every game thereafter. And who'd be suprised when missing skillful first team players.

These kinds of analysis are all prefeced on losing games - you pick out moments and go seeeeeeeee thats where we are going wrong. It is nonense. We aren't as good as we would like to be in all sorts of phases of play, but we are okay, apart from in attack. Midfield isn't that great at passing, but we have improved a little, and we aren't terrible transitioning the ball forward - how do we put in so many crosses if we can't transition forward? What happens when we get into forward positions is very limited however.
 
Last season we also conceded first in this fixture but all that was required to turn the game around was to present Son and Kulusevski the ball around their penalty box and they’d do the rest. Also helped that Udogie had yet to succumb to his third hamstring injury in 20 months plus Bissouma wasn’t on the laughing gas!

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We actually got the ball into their area more this weekend than last season, which just helps to show the difference between having elite attackers rather than kids who are still learning the ropes… although would be nice if there was a better structured pattern of play from Frankball, which the chaos of AngeBall at least wasn’t lacking.

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Huh, so less xg from open play in that game where we won 4-1 compared to the game just gone - almost as though having better attacking players available makes a big difference 😱
 
Huh, so less xg from open play in that game where we won 4-1 compared to the game just gone - almost as though having better attacking players available makes a big difference 😱

Yup, turns out quality > quantity and replacing a legendary LW who had a world class talent for scoring goals from the edge of the area with 2 youngsters who might come good in a few years time could end up costing us more in the long run than stumping up for a Semenyo last summer.

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Literally everyone has said we need better players, not one person has said otherwise. The argument being the current players aren't as bad as how we have been playing under Frank, but I suppose we could only dream of having players of West Ham's ilk coached by a guy who didn't have a pre season....

Indeed. Maybe it’s not that these players are ‘kids learning the ropes’ which I think is an unfair way to describe players we’ve spent 10s of millions of pounds on. Maybe it’s because our players are lacking a lot of confidence right now and not executing effectively. I’d also add Richy failing to execute the easy cross / pass to RKM against Sunderland into this bucket.

It’s not that we need drastically better players to beat these teams. And I don’t think it’s a ‘prevailing narrative’ to say otherwise. I think the confidence of the players is on the floor, and in the critical moments they aren’t executing.
 
Last season we also conceded first in this fixture but all that was required to turn the game around was to present Son and Kulusevski the ball around their penalty box and they’d do the rest. Also helped that Udogie had yet to succumb to his third hamstring injury in 20 months plus Bissouma wasn’t on the laughing gas!

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We actually got the ball into their area more this weekend than last season, which just helps to show the difference between having elite attackers rather than kids who are still learning the ropes… although would be nice if there was a better structured pattern of play from Frankball, which the chaos of AngeBall at least wasn’t lacking.

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We had a better XG in that game than we had at the weekend. West Ham had a FAR better XG at the weekend then they had in that game....

For the 4-1 game our XG was 1.92 and West Ham's was 0.78. Yes we outscored our XG but we also fully deserved to win the game on chances created. That is the polar opposite of the weekend where West Ham's XG was about double ours. We are losing games because we are really bad at the moment. Our attacking play is poor and our defensive play is also poor.
 
Literally everyone has said we need better players, not one person has said otherwise. The argument being the current players aren't as bad as how we have been playing under Frank, but I suppose we could only dream of having players of West Ham's ilk coached by a guy who didn't have a pre season....

The argument has often been even with better attackers we wouldn't/don't create enough for it to make a difference. So I've just jumped on it cos it Steve's post shows that position up quite plainly.
 
I find it mind boggling that some people think Frank has a better squad at his disposal than what we had at the start of last season…

A positive embarrassment of riches available when we played Wet Spam last season!

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He froze Bissouma out himself and was the manager in charge that sold Johnson and Son (who all the mega brains on here were claiming was past it and no longer good enough last season - funny how he's now suddenly one of the main reasons why Frank's Spurs are so diabolical).

If we compare our squad at the start of last season with the start of this season I think most would argue our squad at the start of this season was stronger. If there are people that don't feel it was stronger at the start of this season then I think those people need to seriously look at the manager and DoF who spent a lot of money on players who have made us worse.... that is the opposite of what you are supposed to do when spending a large net amount of money on transfers.
 
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I think this is quite disgusting to be honest. To talk about “hounding” Frank out. If you think he should’ve gone then direct your ire at the board who are putting him through tomorrow.
Absolute melts!
 
The argument has often been even with better attackers we wouldn't/don't create enough for it to make a difference. So I've just jumped on it cos it Steve's post shows that position up quite plainly.
I think we both know this debate won't be going anywhere, but from what I saw people said KUlu/Madison etc would make a bit of a difference but would still ultimately be the same brick football.

I always thought Frank should be given the season at least, but I feel like the West Ham game broke the camels back for too many people for it be possible.....
 
He froze Bissouma out himself and was the manager in charge that sold Johnson and Son (who all the mega brains on here were claiming was past it and no longer good enough last season - funny how he's now suddenly one of the main reasons why Frank's Spurs are so diabolical).

If we compare our squad at the start of last season with the start of this season I think most would argue our squad at the start of this season was stronger. If there are people that don't feel it was stronger at the start of this season then I think those people need to seriously look at the manager and DoF who spent a lot of money on players who have made us worse.... that is the opposite of what you are supposed to do when spending a large net amount of money on transfers.

The argument isn't that Son would have made a difference this season it's that his role as a starting LWF of a high calibre hasn't been replaced. That'd be true whether he stayed and continued to slide in his level of quality or otherwise.
 
I think we both know this debate won't be going anywhere, but from what I saw people said KUlu/Madison etc would make a bit of a difference but would still ultimately be the same brick football.

I always thought Frank should be given the season at least, but I feel like the West Ham game broke the camels back for too many people for it be possible.....

It was brick football previously under Ange with those players too so of course that wouldn't change. New managers first season with a much better attack meaning we get a few more goals & points means we probably aren't where we are now though.
 
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