tommysvr
Steve Carr
Sounds a lot like last season, when we were apparently close to relegation.
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Thomas Frank - Head Coach
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
Sounds a lot like last season, when we were apparently close to relegation.
thfcsteff
Ralph Coates
I believe it would, yes, and I further believe it would not see a change made anyway.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I'm not sure he survives it going wrong. The stadium will riot (metaphorically, they are too old to do it literally these days) if the performance isn't there
thfcsteff
Ralph Coates
Truthfully, I think there are a couple of peoplefor whom Frank has to succeed to some degree or else they will take it as their failure; in that regard, I have come to the conclusion that unless we actually look like we could go down (and I don't think that will happen) he is going nowhere.My devil's advocate to that is that Gallagher is a player this club has been after for some time, and Souza is a future thing. Honestly, I hope we beat the bastards convincingly and start to ascend...
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I think only one (Lange), and he's probably on slippery ground now too. Vinai probably escapes the blame for this one.
It would be great to see a sudden uptick and all our issues be cast away as growing pains. But similar to this stage with Nuno in 2021, surely we've got to be starting conversations now with the likes of Alonso and Xavi etc., ready to move if the balance tips a tad more. The thousands of empty seats tomorrow is going to be quite stark for ENIC and everyone else to see.
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Muttley
Gerry Armstrong
For me, GD says so much about a season, that is if you want to win trophies. As Spurs fans we just dismiss xGA as non-important. It's up there with our biggest weakness as a fan base narrative.
I'm not gonna pretend that we've got our balance right at the moment. but the bias against Frank for daring to build a team from the back and do the hard yards in that way is quite naive (in my opinion). Having our 2 main defenders available for more games this season is not the reason our xGA is better. It is actually the manager's setup of the team that is making the biggest difference.
We just conceded over 60 goals per season for 3 consecutive seasons. That is actually unprecedented amongst the big clubs. It is the elephant in the room at our club. I'm so happy Frank is taking this flailing gauge head on.
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
IIRC our xG against was significantly lower in the last couple of seasons too when we had our best defenders available?
A bit like SissokoWasGood's question about our attacking (how much of that is the system and how much of it is the players available) I think a similar question is relevant about our defending.
Another question is how much of that decreased xG against is a result of the balance not being right. Would we be defensively solid if we didn't play two dedicated defensive midfielders as frequently, if we played with more risk on the ball.
There was an article yesterday about 4 potential clubs for Glasner to go to best of which we was one and the verdict was:
Frank must beware ghost of Tottenham managers past to avoid Nuno’s fate
The Tottenham manager will be aware of the parallels between his time at the club and that of his counterpart now at West Ham, Saturday’s visitorswww.theguardian.com
It's a fair question and a good point, we chew managers up and spit them out like nobody's business. For that reason alone I'd like Frank to be given a real fair crack at this job bar an absolute disaster....
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
Guess the last one would be Pochettino?
After that most have had a fairly similar reputation to when they came here I think. Getting similar type jobs to what they had before, but definitely not improving their reputation.
Out of curiosity what would a "real fair crack at this job" be?
Yes, Poch and not a whole lot of others in over 20 years of ENIC which considering they average not much over 1 year per manager suggests giving managers a season if that is probably not the way to go - especially with the not easy conditions managers have to work under here and adapt to.
For me he gets this season which was always going to be the case anyway, and I would hope that even if the league finish is an underwhelming one we can see some improvement in football by the end of the season. We would have a lot more opportunity to be fresher and work for whole weeks on things on the training ground assuming we are knocked out of the CL by QF stages or something like that.
If that isn't the case then he will be under real pressure, but I would give him season 2 still because that is more telling. Managers who have done well first season have fallen short in their second one, and vice versa. If an outstanding opportunity like Alonso comes up then sure I would trade but I don't see it.
So I say give him season 2, if we are having the same issues by December/January time then I'd expect the club to prepare for the summer if they can't get their preferred target in mid season. Frank was never my choice, but I'd rather we stop this seasonal managerial merry go round and give a clearly good manager a bit of breathing space for once to show he can adapt to managing this basket case of a club rather than writing him off after a matter of months, and I say this as someone who has been largely critical of performances.....
I guess last season answered that question!!
At the end of the day it comes back to..... the players available. Pretty sure if we had a Rodri or a Kante or a Busquets we could afford to have just one "pure" DM. Problem is that we our recruiting has made sure we have basement sale equivalents. As I believe Frank has noticed, no one in our squad has been close to that level; hence bringing in Paulinha, and even then ... hence the two DMs.
Hopefully one of these can now be Gallagher and we can see more progression without losing too much solidity.
At the end of the day, a builder is as good as the tools at his disposal...
thfcsteff
Ralph Coates
Gallagher is not a DM; playing him as one would not good IMO...
Welshspur60
Adel Taarabt
Hope so.
Precisely! maybe I was not clear... but hopefully playing Gallagher next to Paulinha will still retain a decent level of defensive solidity (reasonably similar to what Bentancur has provided) but - critically - improve our progressive ability.
Finney Is Back
Paul Stewart
If we are now finally a well run club on the football side of things (time will tell whether or not we are) we would’ve had exploratory conversations with both of those as well as Pochettino.
Finney Is Back
Paul Stewart
XGA is one lever. XG is equally important. It is quite easy to reduce XGA at the expense of also reducing XG as we have done. There’s no magic in that, just play more defensively and take little risk in possession of the ball, as we are doing.
It doesn’t naturally follow at all that you can suddenly improve the attack having improved the defence, especially when you have improved the defence completely at the expense of creating chances. Any manager could improve our goals conceded column a little bit, while having an anorexic XG due to zero risk taken on the ball combined with our best central defenders being available.
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Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I'm not sure it will be any different to a Paulinha-Bergvall or Paulinha-Sarr pivot. We'd be swapping out a passer for a runner, and with Paulinha not a great passer either, it doesn't help our transitions
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
This is the bit I'm not so sure of. Gallagher for me is more of the same of what we already have. He's a better version but is his passing that more progressive? I'm not sure it is to a game changing extent. I guess we'll see how it works, hopefully his balance is a little more towards progressive then I remember.
So let us look at this...
These are last season's EPL statistics when either, both or none of Romero and Micky played:
You would expect that our best defensive performance would be when both played, followed by when one and worst with none. It does not follow that pattern. The only statistically significant difference is between the games when both played vs when only one of them played. Most interestingly, there is no statistical difference between games when both played (which only included two games against top 6 opposition) as opposed to when neither played.
Not saying that having Romero and/or Micky in the team is not important; but the perception that this season's much better xGA is because at least one of the two was always available is not borne by science... it is much more logically plausible that the improvement is down to the coach; even though some will never give him that....
It may not be different but I suspect (or at least hope) that it will be better since - at least at the moment - Gallagher is a massive improvement miles on both Bergvall and Sarr...
Obviously the utopia will be a defensive midfielder with excellent distribution ala Hjulmand... but we don't have anyone of that species in our squad - so until we do, anything else would be wishful thinking at this stage