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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Bedfordspurs said:
It’s not about who is playing in attack
It’s about how were trying to get the ball to them and how to use them
It’s speculative punts rather than planned passing moves
If the method was creating chances for players to miss I’d get it. It’s not.
Reminds me of my mates argument that players dint pass to richy because he loses the ball… I mean if that’s true then the player not passing should be dropped and fined (of course it ain’t true)
But you tend to not attack well when you play 8 defensive players
Arsenal scored 4 goals yesterday with no recognised striker… but a plan and an attacking method which had variety in style and used the middle of the pitch too (the only time I recall us attacking through the middle was VDVs run vs Copenhagen). And yes they have better players but they actually have an attacking plan
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You can change the method, but you are going to be punished for not taking your chances and being more open doing it, we saw that before.

Arsenal won yesterday because in massive part their starting XI is light years ahead of ours, lets not start deluding ourselves its much more than that
 
Grays_1890 said:
You can change the method, but you are going to be punished for not taking your chances and being more open doing it, we saw that before.

Arsenal won yesterday because in massive part their starting XI is light years ahead of ours, lets not start deluding ourselves its much more than that
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When have we created chances to be not take though ?
What’s the before you reference?
They won yesterday because they attacked
They didn’t get out of third gear and didnt need to
It was as easy a game they will get this season
It was a boxing fight where one guy is trying to jab with his thumb and the other is using both hands
 
Bishop said:
We are now quite aligned in our views about this squad. I think I was at this point a little earlier than you were but it's the same truth ultimately.


Like you I have no special affinity to Frank, but I think he's got some decent attributes that if given the chance can be successful here. But no coach is going to come in and fix the all problems if we aren't able to also fix the squad. I do think we've made some positives moves in that regard but for me this is going to be a years long thing, it's not going to be close to any sort of quick fix. There have been years of erosion, a couple of bricks here and there ain't fixing this.
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Me either, and I am not even being funny here, lets sack him, move him on, with this club I am not far from not caring much anymore, but the same moans and the same over conflated conversations will be had on the same old emergency podcasts when Glasner or Andoni come in and it takes longer than 3 months to install their methods and get their systems installed (they are both famous for it taking time BTW).

You are still relying on players that have in massive part under performed under various managers when our main players and hopes are out injured, people can't or won't see the patterns now.

We replaced Son with not 1 but 2 maybes and spent as much money as it would have cost to bring in quality. Good luck anyone who takes the job dealing with that continued logic
 
Bedfordspurs said:
When have we created chances to be not take though ?
What’s the before you reference?
They won yesterday because they attacked
They didn’t get out of third gear and didnt need to
It was as easy a game they will get this season
It was a boxing fight where one guy is trying to jab with his thumb and the other is using both hands
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And they are going to win the league at a canter, for a reason.

The before is the managers that came before and lost attacking with the same duds..........

You are acting like the manager is a magic wand to change things without the personnel, thats so naive mate
 
Grays_1890 said:
And they are going to win the league at a canter, for a reason.

The before is the managers that came before and lost attacking with the same duds..........

You are acting like the manager is a magic wand to change things without the personnel, thats so naive mate
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Lost attacking but losing by not attacking us much much worse
It all starts with the manager
Did anyone expect us to win yesterday? I didn’t
But before I saw the line up I expected us to try… to try to win
You’re back blaming the attack but there isn’t one because he is literally sacrificing attack for the hope of not conceding.
Football is a game of fine margins (hence why many coaches are now all in with set prices) but it’s all a game with many repeatable factors.
My mate at the same messaged our chat before hand saying the warm up seems to be focussed on our back line playing offside and then crosses. That’s how we play
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Lost attacking but losing by not attacking us much much worse
It all starts with the manager
Did anyone expect us to win yesterday? I didn’t
But before I saw the line up I expected us to try… to try to win
You’re back blaming the attack but there isn’t one because he is literally sacrificing attack for the hope of not conceding.
Football is a game of fine margins (hence why many coaches are now all in with set prices) but it’s all a game with many repeatable factors.
My mate at the same messaged our chat before hand saying the warm up seems to be focussed on our back line playing offside and then crosses. That’s how we play
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No I am not blaming the attack, I am blaming the lack of quality we have in attack.

We have currently the 7th/8th best starting line up available in the league currently and it is showing, I would argue as a squad we are not far of that either.

Redknapp might have been a rent a gob, but his mindset on the game has merit, its about having good players, in too many areas we are relying on some that are not and have not been up to it. That is just a fact.

Anyway, I will let you and others continue the arguments on this, I am firm in my comments and can't be bothered to argue all day on them, plus I have Christmas client drops to start later.

Ho Ho Ho
 
harr1984 said:
New manager, early season when opposition are unsure of how to plan/setup against us . Once obvious how we play, our reliance on Kudus etc it is easier to plan how to compete against us...
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I dont agree
We didnt okay low black and defend that day. We did defend of course
What’s changed is the team have had more coaching and the focus is clearly on being more defensive. That’s what I can’t work out.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Me either, and I am not even being funny here, lets sack him, move him on, with this club I am not far from not caring much anymore, but the same moans and the same over conflated conversations will be had on the same old emergency podcasts when Glasner or Andoni come in and it takes longer than 3 months to install their methods and get their systems installed (they are both famous for it taking time BTW).

You are still relying on players that have in massive part under performed under various managers when our main players and hopes are out injured, people can't or won't see the patterns now.

We replaced Son with not 1 but 2 maybes and spent as much money as it would have cost to bring in quality. Good luck anyone who takes the job dealing with that continued logic
Click to expand...

For me, it has virtually nothing to do with patterns and everything to do with intent. How do you view our intent overall?
 
Grays_1890 said:
No I am not blaming the attack, I am blaming the lack of quality we have in attack.

We have currently the 7th/8th best starting line up available in the league currently and it is showing, I would argue as a squad we are not far of that either.

Redknapp might have been a rent a gob, but his mindset on the game has merit, its about having good players, in too many areas we are relying on some that are not and have not been up to it. That is just a fact.

Anyway, I will let you and others continue the arguments on this, I am firm in my comments and can't be bothered to argue all day on them, plus I have Christmas client drops to start later.

Ho Ho Ho
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I’d back that if we have the attack the ball and they failed
We dont
I’d love to see some attacking play fail because that would show balance to both sides of the game
We literally smack a hopeful long range pass down the wing and hope
We have as much finesse as Donald Trump
 
thfcsteff said:
For me, it has virtually nothing to do with patterns and everything to do with intent. How do you view our intent overall?
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If you only okay sideways you can easily be dealt with
If you have no variety you can easily be dealt with
If you forget that there is a whole massive part of the lucky in the middle… you get the gist
The intent imo is keep a clean sheet and hope a wide player can do something magic like Odobert did vs united or Kudus is constantly asked too
If not a set piece may do
 
glorygloryeze said:
Teams have wised up and we are having to adapt?
Teams don't give away chances like City sometimes do?
We took a slightly lucky 2 goal lead into the break and had a solid basis to continue playing on the break thereafter?
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Maybe
But I haven’t seen any team we have played since change their style for us
Actually… I’m wrong. Wolves did and they were better than us
 
Bishop said:
City are not Arsenal, they don't play the same and have very different weaknesses. The way we setup yesterday would probably work against the Cutty side we played earlier in the season. Comparing one setup versus the other is missing the point a bit.
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The bigger picture though … it was the same intent vs Chelsea with no attacking play. Our worst since the records started bein* kept. And Chelsea’s are not a patch on arsenal
 
thfcsteff said:
Maybe I am not being clear. I am not talking about tactical intent, I am talking the overall intent of how this club goes about playing football matches. Where is our way? Where is the style I associate with this club?
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We are probably getting into larger picture discussions when we talk about 'intent of the club' or 'our way' of playing etc. Which is fair to ask.


But then seeing as it's bigger picture, what is our reference point?
Is it the 4-1 defeat we had vs Chelsea when we had two men sent off and eventually succumbed in the last few mins vs a mediocre Chelsea side and Nic Jackson?
Was it the Europa league final win when we basically parked the bus like any Pulis side after taking the lead?
Was it the home defeat to Liverpool last season when we had a lot of defensive injuries but scored 3 goals letting in 6 and nearly 10 if Liverpool were even more ruthless?
What about the first half vs Wolves this season when we could/should have been 2 or 3 goals up before they changed tactics and nullified us in the second half?

When we talk about intent, are we talking about the way we start matches? Changes made during matches? Keep things as we started regardless of how a match is going? Or only looking at the end result?

In light of the above, what starting line-up and formation would YOU have gone with yesterday?
 
Grays_1890 said:
No I am not blaming the attack, I am blaming the lack of quality we have in attack.

We have currently the 7th/8th best starting line up available in the league currently and it is showing, I would argue as a squad we are not far of that either.

Redknapp might have been a rent a gob, but his mindset on the game has merit, its about having good players, in too many areas we are relying on some that are not and have not been up to it. That is just a fact.

Anyway, I will let you and others continue the arguments on this, I am firm in my comments and can't be bothered to argue all day on them, plus I have Christmas client drops to start later.

Ho Ho Ho
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If we have the 7th/8th best starting line up then why do we enter most games as if we are a Championship side only looking to avoid defeat?
 
thfcsteff said:
Maybe I am not being clear. I am not talking about tactical intent, I am talking the overall intent of how this club goes about playing football matches. Where is our way? Where is the style I associate with this club?
Click to expand...

I am not expecting to see that within the timeframe mate, I have not seen that on and off for seasons on end. We seem also seem intent on ripping up every single change we make because we don't seem to see it and end up in a constant state of flux. I have not seen enough of Frank with good players to make a definitive decision on if he would or will be a success at Spurs.

There is a myth that his Brentford side did not play good football, I saw plenty of the season where they did, they knew their system and he had what has turned out to be very good players who knew the roles.

Not aiming this at you mate, this club and its support has become massively impatient and there is a streak of snobbery that runs through it for me.........
 
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