Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Legohamster]

I hope you're not right. I'm critical of the football that's been served up thus far, but I do like him and hope he can turn things around.

He doesn't help himself with the way he sets up, what is accepted by Brentford fans isn't going to be the same with Spurs fans - he's an intelligent guy, he must see this.

He deserves the time, he earnt his stripes at Brentford - the only way he won't is if fans turn on him in the stadium, which from what I've seen isn't the case?...

for what it's worth I agree

But just look all over social media etc and the booing in the stadium, I can't see it lasting.

Plus the "new" leadership group will want something to get the fans onside.

The obvious ones are Kane back (unlikely) or Mopo.

 

[Legohamster]

Did you see the interview before the game? Well worth a quick listen
He literally said it will be a huge part of the deciding factor
Naive

Arsenal have scored the most in the league, was always going to be important.

 

[thfcsteff]

He has less than optimal tools though doesn't he.
If you take away Xavi (who is physically struggling and constantly getting dispossessed before the final third) who is available to bring the creativity our forwards need?
He has tried to play Tel and Odobert, who have shown flashes but again nothing concrete to start to hang your hat on just yet. Again, how easily are they dispossessed and then the pressure comes straight back on our defence.
If we had Maddison, Kulu and Solanke available and still showing such caution then i'd totally agree with all the criticism (and i agree with some of it as it is)

Oh come on now...he could easily utilize a midway between his style and what he wants based on what we have versus what we don't. Why do we play with two 6's? The whole idea of Palhinha is to offer insurance; why not play Sarr/Bergvall instead of Bentancur? Or Gray? They at least know how to look positive on the ball and seek to bring us forward. The reason Xavi gets dispossessed so easily is because we have too many men behind the ball everytime he receives it, thus nowhere to send it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Frank is a guy who would order his steak well done to be safe, but he may add some ChimiChurri to be adventurous

Ange did pnt even cook his steak he just ate it raw with no cutlery

Conte only would have the leanest thinnest steak and even then he ever ever liked what he got served

Nuno massaged the cow for a little bit think giving him wage beef but it turned out he was massaging a donkey

 

[glorygloryeze]

Yeah, all very fair, and what’s interesting is that the shortlist was basically leaked in January - it was Frank. Silva and Iraola. So it wasn’t as if we were going for someone with deep CL experience. We then qualified which was a bonus, but yeah…surely we aren’t sacking our trophy winning manager for someone that can’t immediately handle the rigours of the elite schedule?

I’ve just read Frank’s post game transcript, and I must say I think the journos are doing him a disservice a bit. Constant questions about whether 5 at the back sent a message to the players that we were going to be too passive, I don’t agree with that. I don’t think Frank wanted it to be that bad in possession. You can be really fluid and attacking playing 3 cbs as we often were under Poch. I think he wanted to see something more like the PSG game. But the issue is, the players are not getting it.

With the pressure on, at the elite level, the theory has to be able to be put into practice. The players aren’t doing it. I don’t know exactly why that is. But they are not pressing in the right moments. They are not passing out through pressure in the right way. There is a total disconnect. It is not about the formation, because you can play attacking or defensive with any set up, and football is a game where it’s all connected. But something is disconnected right now. I think it’s:

A: players not understanding
B: players not buying in
C: Frank not communicating his ideas well enough

And I suspect in reality it’s a combination of A and B.

You raise an interesting point in us targetting Silva, Iraola, Frank - all solid PL coaches who know the league and have done well at lower clubs.
Does it look to you like thy didn't really expect Ange to win the EL and were planning for a bit of a rebuild-to-top6 period instead of a CL run?
It does smack a little of knowing that we aren't as attractive as when we sacked Poch....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arsenal have scored the most in the league, was always going to be important.

Turned out it wasn’t though because they played through the 8 man wall with ease

 

[thfcsteff]

I’m beyond words for how people are watching this and other games and seeing a semblance of progress

Compared to this same stage last season it is statistically inaccurate. We have Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine away coming up....

 

[glorygloryeze]

Oh come on now...he could easily utilize a midway between his style and what he wants based on what we have versus what we don't. Why do we play with two 6's?

At home vs Wolves or even Chelsea, agree. However away to the likes of Arsenal, Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool it's not crazy at all

The whole idea of Palhinha is to offer insurance; why not play Sarr/Bergvall instead of Bentancur? Or Gray? They at least know how to look positive on the ball and seek to bring us forward.

Sarr, Bergvall, Grey recently injured. Bentancur more experienced so i can see the logic for today. The execution on the ball, especially for Bentancur who has had a shocking downturn even from earlier this season is a problem, i'd agree

The reason Xavi gets dispossessed so easily is because we have too many men behind the ball everytime he receives it, thus nowhere to send it.

Really? How often does he get dispossessed and straight away the opposition is straight onto our backline? That's as much lack of conviction on his (Xavi's) part as much as lack of options (sometimes that's the case), but Xavi can himself be indecisive, even in one of his best games vs Leeds he squandered easy passing options when many had bombed forward, only to then be struggling to get back as there was a deadly counterattack now on. So i don't think Xavi's issues are solefly because of Frank, ditto Odobert, ditto Tel.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Frank is a guy who would order his steak well done to be safe, but he may add some ChimiChurri to be adventurous

Ange did pnt even cook his steak he just ate it raw with no cutlery

Conte only would have the leanest thinnest steak and even then he ever ever liked what he got served

Nuno massaged the cow for a little bit think giving him wage beef but it turned out he was massaging a donkey

What about Poch, AVB and Redknapp? What did they order/do re steak?

 

[thfcsteff]

Yes, the squad has a couple of holes, but it is a far, far better squad than the style of football being pressed upon it.
Stats show that we have actually not improved defensively compared to the same stage as last season. And this season, we have committed to not looking to play through the middle whenever possible. You can argue lack of creative passer all you want, we have Xavi, Odobert, Bergvall, Sarr , Kudus and Gray. Between them we can create a side which is committed to attacking football, even if that is via carrying power through the middle as opposed to elite creative passing. Between Xavi, Muani, Tel and Odobert we can get players closer together and on the ball. Our intent today was not to lose, and we didn't even remotley fight even that corner after 33 minutes.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

You raise an interesting point in us targetting Silva, Iraola, Frank - all solid PL coaches who know the league and have done well at lower clubs.
Does it look to you like thy didn't really expect Ange to win the EL and were planning for a bit of a rebuild-to-top6 period instead of a CL run?
It does smack a little of knowing that we aren't as attractive as when we sacked Poch....

It’s funny…when Frank was hired I actually fully believed that it was a strategic move by the club to say ‘thank you Ange for the trophy, and for guiding us through a tough season, but we want to hire someone more closely aligned with our Sporting Director.’ And I saw Frank and Lange’s history as a reason that it made sense. It’s never good to have a coach too far away from the sporting director, and so I was quite impressed with how proactive the club were in creating that alignment.

The reason that I thought that, is because I didn’t for a million years think the club actually thought Ange couldn’t cut it. I thought they respected his ability, but just thought someone else would be better suited to the new structure being put in place.

Now though, when you put it like that and think about the timeline, I do wonder. Why was the shortlist decided upon so early in the season? Clearly because they were sure CL football wasn’t coming. If they felt CL was more likely, would they have considered different coaches? You’d have to think so.

It makes me think too that the reason they went for Frank is because they genuinely thought ‘we’ve had an idealist, if we can just be a bit more pragmatic, we’ll be ok.’ And if that was part of their thought process, I’d have to say that it was the wrong way to think about it. Both because I believe it’s the wrong diagnosis of our issues last season, but also because it doesn’t sufficiently weight the importance of the CL campaign. Not because we could realistically win the CL this year, but managing a squad to compete on all fronts (as they have stated) while simultaneously trying to quite drastically change a culture, is a tall order. And it’s a lot for someone adapting to this level for the first time, taking over from someone who, whatever else you think of him, clearly had the players bought in.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

One other point on culture and the difficulty in changing it;

When Dele says ‘just smashing it long and fudging defending, same thing every game’. It’s an interesting insight into the psyche of a squad that had great success doing something a different way. You’d probably never hear Lampard or Terry or Drogba talk like that about a Jose team, because they had great success under him. And in a way it’s slightly ridiculous for Dele, at the time having achieved a lot less than those players, feeling confident enough to criticise the manager that way.

But it’s not about logic or what’s right or who deserves special praise, it’s about what the players instinctively feel. And I would say right now that the players are trying, they are working hard, but they are not fully feeling it. Maybe because they haven’t quite grasped it. Maybe because Frank isn’t a great communicator. But maybe because it just feels weird to do something different to what they were doing before, in the high pressure moments. And I think that’s where the struggle is coming from.

 

[Gutter Boy]

What about Poch, AVB and Redknapp? What did they order/do re steak?

Poch is the finest Ojo de Bife. Redknapp is gammon with pineapple. AVB is cupim

 

[SpurMeUp]

I won't discuss all the points you've made because they are both your opinions and also valid ones for a debate. Not going there. But I do want to ask (and this is with no 'edge' whatsoever, genuinely interested) whether your gut feeling tells you that TF will build something here and implement a style that is both ours and successful? Or even just one of those two?

TF is good at analysing and then working on areas for improvement. He’s intelligent - more so than most managers imo. Given time he will develop players and construct an effective team. He’s building on terrible foundations though. Only Johnson remains from our attack last season for now. That is nuts. I can’t think of a situation like it. Frank is building on thin air foundations in attack, and missing some quality. And guess what? It shows.

Frank isn’t perfect but he’s pragmatic, experienced and has everything we need. Given the right support by fans and club I think he will deliver for us. But it will take time.

 

[tommysvr]

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

TF is good at analysing and then working on areas for improvement. He’s intelligent - more so than most managers imo. Given time he will develop players and construct an effective team. He’s building on terrible foundations though. Only Johnson remains from our attack last season for now. That is nuts. I can’t think of a situation like it. Frank is building on thin air foundations in attack, and missing some quality. And guess what? It shows.

Frank isn’t perfect but he’s pragmatic, experienced and has everything we need. Given the right support by fans and club I think he will deliver for us. But it will take time.

I just don’t think having to rebuild the attack is the chief reason for what we are seeing to be honest. The stats you see in the post above mine, they are not because he’s had to replace 4 internationals with 4 other internationals. I think it’s something deeper. I’m not saying his system is inherently wrong or unworkable, but it clearly is not working as intended right now.

If he wanted to play more attacking football though, he would. Or not even ‘attacking football’, but some more patterns of play. I thought it was telling on that tactics video posted the other day, on the section about breaking down low blocks. His answer was about crosses. All well and good, but I think actually pretty insightful in terms of how he sees the game. It’s about numbers, put enough balls in with enough people arriving in the box, and eventually something will break our way.

I think the issue is actually we have a pretty terrible phase 2 in possession right now. Especially against good teams. So we aren’t even getting the opportunity to cross, or slip a pass into the half space, or anything.

 

[thfcsteff]

TF is good at analysing and then working on areas for improvement. He’s intelligent - more so than most managers imo. Given time he will develop players and construct an effective team. He’s building on terrible foundations though.

Our squad building has been bad for sometime, yes.

Only Johnson remains from our attack last season for now. That is nuts. I can’t think of a situation like it.

...and he isn't playing him. Richarlison was with the club last season. He is unfortunate with Solanke.

Frank is building on thin air foundations in attack, and missing some quality. And guess what? It shows.

What is he building in terms of attacking style?

Frank isn’t perfect but he’s pragmatic, experienced and has everything we need. Given the right support by fans and club I think he will deliver for us. But it will take time.

We shall see. Let's hope you're right.

 

[Gazza]

What about Poch, AVB and Redknapp? What did they order/do re steak?

Poch with a Malbec some chimichurri because he’s Argentinian

Redknapp down the 2 4 1 route at the hungry horse with ketchup and vinegar on everything.

AVB … hotdogs

 

[Benny_Lad]

Yeah, all very fair, and what’s interesting is that the shortlist was basically leaked in January - it was Frank. Silva and Iraola. So it wasn’t as if we were going for someone with deep CL experience. We then qualified which was a bonus, but yeah…surely we aren’t sacking our trophy winning manager for someone that can’t immediately handle the rigours of the elite schedule?

I’ve just read Frank’s post game transcript, and I must say I think the journos are doing him a disservice a bit. Constant questions about whether 5 at the back sent a message to the players that we were going to be too passive, I don’t agree with that. I don’t think Frank wanted it to be that bad in possession. You can be really fluid and attacking playing 3 cbs as we often were under Poch. I think he wanted to see something more like the PSG game. But the issue is, the players are not getting it.

With the pressure on, at the elite level, the theory has to be able to be put into practice. The players aren’t doing it. I don’t know exactly why that is. But they are not pressing in the right moments. They are not passing out through pressure in the right way. There is a total disconnect. It is not about the formation, because you can play attacking or defensive with any set up, and football is a game where it’s all connected. But something is disconnected right now. I think it’s:

A: players not understanding
B: players not buying in
C: Frank not communicating his ideas well enough

And I suspect in reality it’s a combination of A and B.

What about D: The players aren’t good enough.

In the summer with Son regressing and going, we should have been looking to improve him, Maddison and Solanke. (I still rate Maddison).

Instead we are now desperate for the latter 2 to return.

Nobody can look at yesterday’s lineup and think Richy and Odobert are good enough. And Kudus performances have dropped off.

With the gaping hole behind them, we’d basically conceded 2/3rds of the pitch before the game started.

I think yesterday was a combination of average players in a bad setup.

 

[Daisuk]

I see some people complain our poor attacking football this season is down to a poor squad. It may not be a top 4 squad, but it is a squad that is capable of playing much better football than this. Look at Sunderland ffs! They're ripping it up with a much inferior squad to our's. Won at Chelsea, drew at Arse.

I don't know why Frank persist with this brick style of play when it gets us nothing. It's baffling to expect more from the players when they're set up to fail every game.