Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[glorygloryeze]

I really just want him to answer the question that was asked.

There’s plenty of coaches that actually have more of a possession game that are willing and able to expand on their thoughts around the system in these pressers. I don’t think it’s some secret that Frank is hiding from the opposition that he’s about to unleash. He chose to answer it the way he did out of many other ways he could have taken it. And it’s not the biggest thing of course. But it’s a small insight into the way he thinks.

I think for Frank, it’s likely that ideas around possession systems are probably just not as important as they are to other coaches. To him, if we’re scoring, it’s probably fine. But the question wasn’t really about ‘are you going to score goals’ (we scored 3 last week, it’s clearly not about goals) but about how we play when we’re required to take the initiative.

It’s a little bit having his cake and eating it. Like one week saying that against Leeds they had more XG, but XG doesn’t sufficiently account for the openings we created. But then against Villa saying we had a better XG. It’s getting through the presser but it’s sort of skirting around the main issue. Either we deserve to win based on XG or we don’t. And either we’re going to be fine taking the initiative or we’re not. But answering the question with a different point isn’t helpful. Jose’s teams have scored lots of goals, but he’s still a reactive manager. Clearly we have struggled more when we need to be proactive. What is his answer to that? We don’t know because he hasn’t addressed it.

I appreciate the detailed response, but you haven't answered by question B (tbf A was a bit frivolous on my part):
Can you point out a coach that answered a similar question in the way that gave the kind of answer you were more satisfied with?

P.S. - I will NOT accept Arteta and his "Trust the Process" as viable answer...

 

[Bishop]

Honestly I've been in agreement with you about the quality and lopsidedness of this squad for some time. But nonetheless the football we are currently playing is not reflective of the quality of the squad, they aren't that bad that they can't play some football on the floor and have some movement - they aren't even doing the basics. That's on Frank, it's not sustainable in terms of gaining points or in terms of keeping the fans on his side - we are a horrible watch right now.

He deserves time to sort it out, especially like you mention because of the misgivings of the squad. But he has to find a happy medium in terms of style because we all know how modern football works and Spurs fans just won't take to this for long....

I also do think we can have a more progressive approach, i'm just doubting how successful we can be doing so. I don't believe it solves the overall problems within the squad. On the matter in general, like with Ange all I csn ask is for a willingness from the coach to adapt to their circumstances and expectations. If you see an approach isn't working, then you must attempt to make those changes to maximise what you do have, no matter how poor or unsuited it might appear to be. In that regard Frank hasn't had enough time for me to say whether he is willing or capable of adapting appropriately at Spurs but that is where I will judge him.

To me it looks like that's what's been coached into them since Frank came in.

We have some players that are naturally more conservative, Palhinha for example. But Bentancur, VdV, Spence aren't. They've showed themselves repeatedly in the past to want to play with risk, being less conservative.

The confusion will set in when/if Frank tells them to play a more ambitious and riskier style. That's where we'll have 1-3 months of adjusting with players getting used to that way of playing and struggling with their decision making on when to take more risk and when to be more conservative. I'd argue that's perhaps what we saw already against Chelsea.

If I'm right about that (big massive if) will Frank continue down that path or will he revert to safety first risk avoidance conservative?

I kind of do think hes gone for the defensive fix first with a further progressive plan later, but is probably realizing that, that won't placate the fans and we do have expectations of playing or attempting to play in a positive manner. I will say though that Bentancur has been regressive ever since his injury, he doesn't appear to have the mindset to play that way anymore even pre Frank.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I appreciate the detailed response, but you haven't answered by question B (tbf A was a bit frivolous on my part):
Can you point out a coach that answered a similar question in the way that gave the kind of answer you were more satisfied with?

P.S. - I will NOT accept Arteta and his "Trust the Process" as viable answer...

I appreciate the detailed response, but you haven't answered by question B (tbf A was a bit frivolous on my part):
Can you point out a coach that answered a similar question in the way that gave the kind of answer you were more satisfied with?

P.S. - I will NOT accept Arteta and his "Trust the Process" as viable answer...

Enzo Maresca has said plenty at Leicester and Chelsea defending his style, talking about why the fans should not be impatient with a pass back, how possession helps them rest with the ball etc.

Again I’m not saying Frank should have gone into a long detailed defence or that he did anything wrong, I’m just saying that he did actually answer the question, and his answer tells us something about his instincts.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

My question would be why are the players not turning in those situations, why are they not taking up less conservative positions in those situations.

To me it looks like that's what's been coached into them since Frank came in.

We have some players that are naturally more conservative, Palhinha for example. But Bentancur, VdV, Spence aren't. They've showed themselves repeatedly in the past to want to play with risk, being less conservative.

The confusion will set in when/if Frank tells them to play a more ambitious and riskier style. That's where we'll have 1-3 months of adjusting with players getting used to that way of playing and struggling with their decision making on when to take more risk and when to be more conservative. I'd argue that's perhaps what we saw already against Chelsea.

If I'm right about that (big massive if) will Frank continue down that path or will he revert to safety first risk avoidance conservative?

Yeah, I think the bull case for Frank is that the players have over rotated on caution and it’s just going to take a few more games for them to understand what he’s asking for in specific situations. But if the message that has been internalised is defence first, solidity, then when the pressure is on that’s what the players will fall back upon.

It seems like he is trying to correct that today in his interview with the club. I don’t think it means the system changes, I think that within the system the players make better decisions.

Culture is clearly so important. Was reading the Kulusevski Players Tribune article about the 4-1 loss to Chelsea again, and he talks about how Ange was proud of them for continuing to attack once Udogie was sent off. Clearly that was a good moment in establishing the culture, but the Brighton defeat would have been an example of what I think we’re seeing with Frank here. It’s one thing to internalise the messages you’re being given, but it’s still about winning a football match and making smart decisions within the structure you’ve been given. I really think the Chelsea game on the weekend just showed the players had over rotated on caution, thinking that was what was being asked, and hopefully these last couple of days there’s been some clarifying meetings about what is actually required.

Chelsea was so bad, that it hopefully provides a turning point. There’s just so many examples of where the wrong thing happened, that it should provide clarity on how to turn it around. Fingers crossed.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Enzo Maresca has said plenty at Leicester and Chelsea defending his style, talking about why the fans should not be impatient with a pass back, how possession helps them rest with the ball etc.

Again I’m not saying Frank should have gone into a long detailed defence or that he did anything wrong, I’m just saying that he did actually answer the question, and his answer tells us something about his instincts.

Fair enough

 

[fernadez]

My question would be why are the players not turning in those situations, why are they not taking up less conservative positions in those situations.

To me it looks like that's what's been coached into them since Frank came in.

We have some players that are naturally more conservative, Palhinha for example. But Bentancur, VdV, Spence aren't. They've showed themselves repeatedly in the past to want to play with risk, being less conservative.

The confusion will set in when/if Frank tells them to play a more ambitious and riskier style. That's where we'll have 1-3 months of adjusting with players getting used to that way of playing and struggling with their decision making on when to take more risk and when to be more conservative. I'd argue that's perhaps what we saw already against Chelsea.

If I'm right about that (big massive if) will Frank continue down that path or will he revert to safety first risk avoidance conservative?

But they wasn't doing it before he came in either. Many videos of Ange screaming at the players last season and his set up was to attack.

I don't see how it can be on the players last season, but the manager this.

 

[thfcsteff]

Tbh I've not watched it. And was going on what BoL was saying about wanting more detail.

I think we are agreeing if your 'flat bat' is the same as my 'straight bat'?

Generally speaking, this element of a manager's 'duties' serves them no purpose. There's next to zero ROI for them.

Agree mate, and in fairness, it calls into question exactl;y why so many interviews and pressers are done.
I'd like to protect managers and maybe have others handle at least two of these a week; have the manager quickly chat with the club's main PR, draft some points and let someone else deliver. Frees the manager from scrutiny and unecessary pressure.

 

[thfcsteff]

Who knows?
Maybe this period of time and pressure will be the making of Thomas; maybe he will grown into that next-level coach? Here's hoping...

 

[Bishop]

But they wasn't doing it before he came in either. Many videos of Ange screaming at the players last season and his set up was to attack.

I don't see how it can be on the players last season, but the manager this.

Yeah there is this massive blind spot whereby so many actually don't remember the football we played last season. It was nominally attacking and definitely team positioning was much higher up the pitch but we played much of the same sideways football as we have this season so far. It's the nature of the players we have, it's what they are capable of.

 

[billyiddo]

Yeah there is this massive blind spot whereby so many actually don't remember the football we played last season. It was nominally attacking and definitely team positioning was much higher up the pitch but we played much of the same sideways football as we have this season so far. It's the nature of the players we have, it's what they are capable of.

It was the worst season of football i have had to endure in 30 odd years of going to games.

It'll take time to turn that around

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Yeah there is this massive blind spot whereby so many actually don't remember the football we played last season. It was nominally attacking and definitely team positioning was much higher up the pitch but we played much of the same sideways football as we have this season so far. It's the nature of the players we have, it's what they are capable of.

Last season there were some really bad games where we looked clueless. I’m thinking (at home) Palace loss and Bournemouth draw specifically. The Forest loss at home was a chaotic and unorganised start to go two down but we actually played really good football for the majority of that game and were unlucky not to take something. But for sure Palace and Bournemouth were bad bad games. Leicester at home too.

By the same token, we also played really good football last season which showed a lot of the same players are capable of a lot more. I’m talking Villa 4-1, West Ham 4-1, Everton 4-0, Brentford 3-1, and you’d have to include the wins in Manchester in that too.

This is not to re-litigate Ange, rather to say in the not too distant past these players have proven they were capable of playing really good football. Something changes after the City win. I think we still try to play attacking football generally, hence the Chelsea 4-3 loss, the Liverpool 6-3 etc, but by that point something has changed.

I’ll argue that what changes was the squad going through a crazy schedule and injury crisis, but my main point is that just because of the performances we subsequently saw, it doesn’t take away that these players are capable of playing a more proactive form of football.

He’s picked a midfield of Xavi, Sarr and Bentancur this evening. Let’s see if that changes things…

 

[Lemonade Money]

Where did all the bog snorkelers go?

 

[Mikey10]

It was the worst season of football i have had to endure in 30 odd years of going to games.

It'll take time to turn that around

The closest I’ve ever come to falling out of
love with this club, and with football.

 

[Baleforce]

Where did all the bog snorkelers go?

this was the hottest thread in town on Saturday...

 

[Lemonade Money]

this was the hottest thread in town on Saturday...

Steaming.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He changes the tactics and we look more positive

How much is reactionary to last weekend vs players availability vs the level of opposition we won’t know

But can’t argue with 4 goals and in reality what could and should have been 6 or more

My worry fir the weekend is player fatigue now but that can’t be helped

 

[Robspur12]

So I’m going to say it. There is so much to like about this coach. Yeah we are going to continue to see some inconsistency and I wouldn’t want to predict where we are going to finish. But on the face of it, TF is a clever coach, appears to be emotionally intelligent, has great attention to detail and is working from the back forward like all good coaches, to give us a solid base. He also appears humble in press conferences and I am proud to have him represent my club. There were some lovely green shoots tonight; particularly seeing Xavi and Muani for the first time looking like the players we thought we were signing. I’m not getting ahead of myself because I know the opposition were weak. But I hope the fan base will show TF some patience as there will be some tough times ahead. He is a good coach and given time, I think he’ll do well.

 

[Muttley]

So I’m going to say it. There is so much to like about this coach. Yeah we are going to continue to see some inconsistency and I wouldn’t want to predict where we are going to finish. But on the face of it, TF is a clever coach, appears to be emotionally intelligent, has great attention to detail and is working from the back forward like all good coaches, to give us a solid base. He also appears humble in press conferences and I am proud to have him represent my club. There were some lovely green shoots tonight; particularly seeing Xavi and Muani for the first time looking like the players we thought we were signing. I’m not getting ahead of myself because I know the opposition were weak. But I hope the fan base will show TF some patience as there will be some tough times ahead. He is a good coach and given time, I think he’ll do well.

Such a relevant post, especially the comment on Frank's emotional intelligence. Such a massive ingredient that was missing from the last couple of season's at our club.

 

[metalgear]

So I’m going to say it. There is so much to like about this coach. Yeah we are going to continue to see some inconsistency and I wouldn’t want to predict where we are going to finish. But on the face of it, TF is a clever coach, appears to be emotionally intelligent, has great attention to detail and is working from the back forward like all good coaches, to give us a solid base. He also appears humble in press conferences and I am proud to have him represent my club. There were some lovely green shoots tonight; particularly seeing Xavi and Muani for the first time looking like the players we thought we were signing. I’m not getting ahead of myself because I know the opposition were weak. But I hope the fan base will show TF some patience as there will be some tough times ahead. He is a good coach and given time, I think he’ll do well.

Yup I am for TF getting a year's experience before we judge him and so far it has been a massive improvement, especially considering the injuries.

At the very least, TF is logical and reasonable, not stubborn in any way and well capable in managing the press in a patient and upright sort of way.

 

[thfcsteff]

I am intrigued to see if he continues to set us up more like this in games where we can overpower the opposition, especially at home. I hope so, because it proves what many have been saying which is we can play this way even with the usual architects out injured. We DO have players who can.

It is no irony that Xavi had his best game yet for us, given the shape and patterns around him. It also makes a huge difference having a LB at LB; this is a transfer issue and we need to act in Jan IMO.