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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Hmm, are we in 'Nuno territory' already?

And those who are screaming about how Frank 'needs to know that he is no longer at Brentford' the same ones who have said how horrible the fanbase was to Nuno just befroe he was sacked after that 3-0 home loss to Man Utd?

Bare in mind that the likes of Nuno, Conte, Jose had FAR BETTER striking options at their disposal when they were being 'pragmatic'.
How many of you are being consistent here with your appraisal of Frank?
 
braineclipse said:
Compared to the start of last season we've added Kudus, Palhinha, Kolo Muani, Simons, Kinsky, Danso and Tel. As well as having seen Spence go from ready to be sold to a really good player, seen Gray and Bergvall step up to a good PL level at least.
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Bit of cherry picking there...

Compared to the second half of last season we've realistically just added Kudus, Palhinha with Kolo Muani, Simons still adjusting to the league for various reasons - and we lost Son. So basically we are better defensively but remained at the same level attack wise (actually are worse because of the combined absence of Dom, Madders and Kulu; which was not the case last year)
 
Btw, i thought the football on Saturday was appalling, but there are mitigating circumstances here and you have to bear in mind our injuries, our transfer policies over the years (why do still have only one left-footed left-back??) and the fact that we have NEVER had a new manager who has had the league AND CL to contend with in his first season (so unlike when we are in the EL, there are less games you can 'tinker' with to try things out and not have the same pressure you have in the CL).

I bet if Frank's record is compared to even the ones we look back on with loving feelings, he's not doing too badly
 
thfcsteff said:
Everytime Super Kev goes over to the touchline to dry the ball off and wind up for another Delapped hurler, a small piece of me sheds a tear. That moment against Chelsea when one of his hurlers landed with Bentancur and he blew the chance? I think I'd almost have been embarrassed to cheer that goal; after decades of being spoilt by some incredible creativity at the Lane, we cannot have arrived at that being our clearest chance of a derby, and if we have, patience for a new manager not withstanding we cannot be quiet about it can we?
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Embarrassed to cheer a goal? Seriously? Is this the level of delusion we have got to?? Wonder if the scum are embarrassed to celebrate their regular corner goals?

And then we ask why other fans ridicule us for being entitled....
 
thfcsteff said:
Everytime Super Kev goes over to the touchline to dry the ball off and wind up for another Delapped hurler, a small piece of me sheds a tear. That moment against Chelsea when one of his hurlers landed with Bentancur and he blew the chance? I think I'd almost have been embarrassed to cheer that goal; after decades of being spoilt by some incredible creativity at the Lane, we cannot have arrived at that being our clearest chance of a derby, and if we have, patience for a new manager not withstanding we cannot be quiet about it can we?
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Sorry, Steff, but frankly this is ridiculous. If this was after 18 montsh and those were all the goals we were scoring, i'd understand, but this is after what, ten games??

If we scored a goal like hat at the Emirates to win 1-0 in a few weeks time, would you honestly care??
 
LutonSpurs said:
There seems to be a trepidation to play forward through the middle, especially along the ground, from all but Romero. That has to be based on some instruction or drill to not take a risk there. It's not nice to see.

I mean, it's sort of give it to Kudus and let him try something
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Yes, there is definitely a worry with many about losing the ball. When you see how often in the last 12 months or so we have been dispossessed and then immediately countered, you can understand the hesitancy.
Players like Bergvall, Simons even Bentancur being dispossessed in dangerous areas makes it understandable that we are seeing such hesitancy more and more. It was only a few games ago (away at Leeds) that we showed we CAN play forward passes very well if we are 'feeling it'.
Udogie being out since Leeds might be telling.
More strength on the ball will help (too many players are way too weak in possession atm)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Hmm, are we in 'Nuno territory' already?

And those who are screaming about how Frank 'needs to know that he is no longer at Brentford' the same ones who have said how horrible the fanbase was to Nuno just befroe he was sacked after that 3-0 home loss to Man Utd?

Bare in mind that the likes of Nuno, Conte, Jose had FAR BETTER striking options at their disposal when they were being 'pragmatic'.
How many of you are being consistent here with your appraisal of Frank?
Click to expand...

Very fair/accurate comments
 
Mabspurs said:
Bit of cherry picking there...

Compared to the second half of last season we've realistically just added Kudus, Palhinha with Kolo Muani, Simons still adjusting to the league for various reasons - and we lost Son. So basically we are better defensively but remained at the same level attack wise (actually are worse because of the combined absence of Dom, Madders and Kulu; which was not the case last year)
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The comparison is frequently made to last season and our league position last season. Including in the post from you that I quoted.

I don't mind a perspective on that from what happened in the transfer window this summer. That is clearly relevant.

But I think a perspective on that which compares the squad this season to the squad in the first half of last season as also valid and relevant.
 
For me it was the manner of the defeat more than the defeat itself. It was indicative of our performances at home this season. We looked devoid of any creativity once again and didn’t put them under any real pressure at any time. Even the Everton game flattered us and we’ve generally been good away from home.

I feel like there needs to be a reaction in the two home games this week and we need to show some intent and get the ball moving quicker. Not saying it’s right or fair but pressure will start to build on Frank if we get too many more repeats of that performance on Saturday.
 
fernadez said:
Another observation, style of player only seems to matter when not winning.

Arteta got pelters when Arsenal wasn't challenging about the traditions, Wenger etc etc

Now he's looking like he's gonna Stoke his way to the title playing Haramball nobody cares.
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I think Arteta can rightfully claim that they have a good possssikn game, but have unlocked set pieces as a way to break teams down. Right now we can’t claim the same. It’s bad in possession and set pieces are the only thing we have.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think Arteta can rightfully claim that they have a good possssikn game, but have unlocked set pieces as a way to break teams down. Right now we can’t claim the same. It’s bad in possession and set pieces are the only thing we have.
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They used to have one, then Arteta changed his philosophy. Arsenal fans still state that all the do is play side to side, and try get crosses in the box and play for set peices. Liverpool winning the title last year was as much about Arsenal not being expansive as anything else. But what it does do is provide a solid foundation and allows for less fluctuation in performances levels affecting results. They've been solid but boring to a point where now it's automated, a bit of quality on top and they're clear at the top and haven't played well once this season.
 
Jurgen the German said:
For me it was the manner of the defeat more than the defeat itself. It was indicative of our performances at home this season. We looked devoid of any creativity once again and didn’t put them under any real pressure at any time. Even the Everton game flattered us and we’ve generally been good away from home.

I feel like there needs to be a reaction in the two home games this week and we need to show some intent and get the ball moving quicker. Not saying it’s right or fair but pressure will start to build on Frank if we get too many more repeats of that performance on Saturday.
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Pressure is already building. And it would have been greater already if not for some imo somewhat lucky results.

xG numbers while not an absolute truth to any extent say that our performances have been worthy of somewhere mid table. To me that matches the eye test with the Villa game being the only game where we probably deserved more than we got and there being several games in the league where we got a better result than our performance would deserve imo.

In the EL we were mostly played off the park by both Bodø Glimt and Monaco, but got draws, a win in overall a close scrappy game against Villarreal.

Unless we improve it's only a matter of time before results start catching up to performances, we'll probably end up with an unlucky streak at some point. Pressure will only increase unless our performances improve.

Rightly or wrongly that will happen.

Another factor is entertainment value. And we're not exactly delivering on that either.
 
thfcsteff said:
Everytime Super Kev goes over to the touchline to dry the ball off and wind up for another Delapped hurler, a small piece of me sheds a tear. That moment against Chelsea when one of his hurlers landed with Bentancur and he blew the chance? I think I'd almost have been embarrassed to cheer that goal; after decades of being spoilt by some incredible creativity at the Lane, we cannot have arrived at that being our clearest chance of a derby, and if we have, patience for a new manager not withstanding we cannot be quiet about it can we?
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I don't mind the set pieces and long throw ins being effective, I just don't want it be the only way we can create. It should be on top of being creative and giving us an edge in close games.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Absolutely.

It makes me raise a wry eyebrow when I see things like ‘once we get Madders and Kulu back things will be better’ because a stat like this one, FOUR through balls all season…that clearly is not the players. That is very blatantly a result of the instruction they’ve been given.

I genuinely would love to understand why Frank has gone about things this way. It’s yielded points away from home but it so clearly would cause issues when he has to seize the initiative. What is the rationale?
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Maybe, just maybe, the rationale is that - what is available at the moment - he knows that the team is unable to play a progressive game and if he attempts it, we will be back to Ange levels of defensive frailty?

Even so, do you seriously believe that Frank is telling the players not to pass forward if they have an opportunity to do so? Seriously?

Of course it is the players! They simply are not good enough. Other than Madders and Kulu, which other midfielders have a decent track record of forward passing during the previous seasons?
 
Mabspurs said:
Maybe, just maybe, the rationale is that - what is available at the moment - he knows that the team is unable to play a progressive game and if he attempts it, we will be back to Ange levels of defensive frailty?

Even so, do you seriously believe that Frank is telling the players not to pass forward if they have an opportunity to do so? Seriously?

Of course it is the players! They simply are not good enough. Other than Madders and Kulu, which other midfielders have a decent track record of forward passing during the previous seasons?
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I don't believe that Frank is telling them that - I doubt anyone believes that. I also don't believe that neither Pahlinha or Bentancur are capable of passing the ball forwards. They are international footballers so of course they can do it even if passing isn't necessarily their strength. However, if you look at their pass maps recently, it's embarrassingly sideways or backwards. The reason? For me, it's simply that they have very little happening in front of them in terms of numbers and movement and that comes back to how Frank is setting the team up.
 
Mabspurs said:
Maybe, just maybe, the rationale is that - what is available at the moment - he knows that the team is unable to play a progressive game and if he attempts it, we will be back to Ange levels of defensive frailty?

Even so, do you seriously believe that Frank is telling the players not to pass forward if they have an opportunity to do so? Seriously?

Of course it is the players! They simply are not good enough. Other than Madders and Kulu, which other midfielders have a decent track record of forward passing during the previous seasons?
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We always have injuries, Kulu and Madders themselves get them every fudging season - if your argument is that we have to accept this standard of football because we have some injuries and those two are missing and then fudge me. Noone is expecting harlem globe trotters football, but looking to be solid doesn't automatically equate to how we are working the football. And the midfielders and forwards might not be stellar standard, but they are capable of playing some football passing and moving it and yes they have done that in the past. To make out its got nothing to do with the coach's tactics and is just down to the players is absolutely cringeworthy and such a kop out....
 
Mabspurs said:
Maybe, just maybe, the rationale is that - what is available at the moment - he knows that the team is unable to play a progressive game and if he attempts it, we will be back to Ange levels of defensive frailty?

Even so, do you seriously believe that Frank is telling the players not to pass forward if they have an opportunity to do so? Seriously?

Of course it is the players! They simply are not good enough. Other than Madders and Kulu, which other midfielders have a decent track record of forward passing during the previous seasons?
Click to expand...
The idea that our squad of international footballers cannot play a more progressive possession game than what we saw on Saturday is completely mad, I’m sorry. Even accounting for the injuries.
 
fernadez said:
They used to have one, then Arteta changed his philosophy. Arsenal fans still state that all the do is play side to side, and try get crosses in the box and play for set peices. Liverpool winning the title last year was as much about Arsenal not being expansive as anything else. But what it does do is provide a solid foundation and allows for less fluctuation in performances levels affecting results. They've been solid but boring to a point where now it's automated, a bit of quality on top and they're clear at the top and haven't played well once this season.
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It’s why I called their possession game good, rather than excellent. But they are world class at set pieces.

Where as so far I’d say we’re very good at set pieces and have nothing else offensively.
 
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