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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Grays_1890 said:
You know lesser players are not as consistent at better and more established players, come on now
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We added 4 first 11 players this summer.
World Cup finalist
Super experienced Portuguese international
Great beast mode winger
And one of the best young creative players in Europe
Yet….
We played one kid in that starting 11 yesterday
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We don’t win there with better players and a better coach
That I accept
I don’t accept that the squad is poor but I don’t think it’s full of world class talent either
I’d say it’s better than a lot of sides as it should be with the money spent
Have we actually actually played the same 11 twice this season? Doubt it
Scary thing is we have added first team ready players this season and it’s no better (I’d say worse but that would start an Ange convo)
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We probably aren't going to finish 17th so I'd say it's better.
 
Benny_Lad said:
What about D: The players aren’t good enough.

In the summer with Son regressing and going, we should have been looking to improve him, Maddison and Solanke. (I still rate Maddison).

Instead we are now desperate for the latter 2 to return.

Nobody can look at yesterday’s lineup and think Richy and Odobert are good enough. And Kudus performances have dropped off.

With the gaping hole behind them, we’d basically conceded 2/3rds of the pitch before the game started.

I think yesterday was a combination of average players in a bad setup.
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We can say the players are not good enough for some idealised final stage we will hopefully arrive at where we truly start competing for the PL and CL. That I agree with,

But in the last few weeks we’ve managed to put together our two worst Xg performances since records began. The players are not so bad that it means the attacking output is that bad. It is something deeper. There is a disconnect and something is not clicking.
 
Grays_1890 said:
You lose, you lose, the idea there is a romance to be had for losing with intent is fine, but I have seen us try that over the years and get dingdonged. Last season League Cup against Liverpool was hardly what I call showing intent.
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What I would say though is that you could see the flaws easier. As an example in the 4-3-3 Ange had his 3 midfielders on the high press splitting left, right and centre. They would all end up in advanced areas and all be behind the ball as we were chasing back. You could see the full-backs inverting only to be done as a team on the outside. You could see the players obsessing so much on the "defensive line" that they weren't doing more natural defensive things like marking. You could see the far post defensive issues from set pieces based on the hybrid zone vs markers vs blockers assignation.

Perhaps not at the stage we are with Frank now though. With Ange, it all became clearer over time and I think some of us realised that Ange wasn't going to be the one to correct these wrongs and then get the best out of the group including the great things he could implement.

I'm still trusting Frank though. It is a process that will take time. Also worth remembering we are Spurs fans. You can have a season where you concede over 60 goals in the league but your leading scorer gets 30 PL goals. You then have 2 more seasons conceding over 60 goals but the deep moans and groans only really come when the goals dry up.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
We can say the players are not good enough for some idealised final stage we will hopefully arrive at where we truly start competing for the PL and CL. That I agree with,

But in the last few weeks we’ve managed to put together our two worst Xg performances since records began. The players are not so bad that it means the attacking output is that bad. It is something deeper. There is a disconnect and something is not clicking.
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Yep
And imo the players won’t suffer this without calling it out
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We added 4 first 11 players this summer.
World Cup finalist
Super experienced Portuguese international
Great beast mode winger
And one of the best young creative players in Europe
Yet….
We played one kid in that starting 11 yesterday
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Hahaha mate, Muani was a sub in a World Cup final and has been passed around Europe because is lack of impact, he also just fractured his face. Xavi who is clearly having issues finding his feet and isn't yet at the level, Kudus who was injured and missed 2 games recently and a DM who is actually performing to a high level.

AGAIN I will say, Frank has faults, 100% not infallible to criticism BUT the squads nowhere near the level you and others are making out and I think you are being fairly disingenuous on some of what you are saying TBH mate.

I am def leaving if there because I don't think Frank or any manager that comes in to the same situation as the coaching cure all wand that you and others are making out exists
 
Grays_1890 said:
Hahaha mate, Muani was a sub in a World Cup final and has been passed around Europe because is lack of impact, he also just fractured his face. Xavi who is clearly having issues finding his feet and isn't yet at the level, Kudus who was injured and missed 2 games recently and a DM who is actually performing to a high level.

AGAIN I will say, Frank has faults, 100% not infallible to criticism BUT the squads nowhere near the level you and others are making out and I think you are being fairly disingenuous on some of what you are saying TBH mate.

I am def leaving if there because I don't think Frank or any manager that comes in to the same situation as the coaching cure all wand that you and others are making out exists
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How high do you think people are rating the squad ?
 
Seems like the most obvious answer is that both things are true. We have a squad that is not good enough for where we want to be: consistenly in the top 5. That squad has been decimated by injuries for the last 12 months, exacerbating the issue.

But our squad is far better than the performances and results that we've had over the last 12 months. That is the sole reason Ange lost his job. He lost his job because a squad that should finish in the top 8 (at least) finished 17th. Frank was brought into correct that. He inherited a squad that is better than it is currently showing, again in both performances and results. Frank was a popular choice because the general consensus was that he was a manager that could produce a team better than the sum of its parts. Like Palace, Bournemouth, Forest etc, but with a Spurs budget.

We need to improve the squad, and Frank needs to improve performances in the meantime.
 
tommysvr said:
Seems like the most obvious answer is that both things are true. We have a squad that is not good enough for where we want to be: consistenly in the top 5. That squad has been decimated by injuries for the last 12 months, exacerbating the issue.

But our squad is far better than the performances and results that we've had over the last 12 months. That is the sole reason Ange lost his job. He lost his job because a squad that should finish in the top 8 (at least) finished 17th. Frank was brought into correct that. He inherited a squad that is better than it is currently showing, again in both performances and results. Frank was a popular choice because the general consensus was that he was a manager that could produce a team better than the sum of its parts. Like Palace, Bournemouth, Forest etc, but with a Spurs budget.

We need to improve the squad, and Frank needs to improve performances in the meantime.
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Yep
And you don’t do that by setting your team up to not loae
No players like that
They back themselves as elite players
I actually think Frank is over thinking and possibly over coaching
Someone posted elsewhere a Roy Hodgson interview he said that was his issue at Liverpool
I remember reading about Benitez trying to to show Modrix how pass…
When I see such a team of coaches and a super analytical approach, I do wonder
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’d take a cup every season over a league finish
And we’re already down to 2 possibles
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We probably weren't winning a cup every season though if we are realistic. Ange did well to win the one he did but did you truly believe that was something that was gonna happen again? We aren't even in the EL this season.

For me the league is paramount. It's the only constant, it's the place by which you can measure your performances against everyone else. I want to be the best and to be the best you have to win the league.
 
Sorry mate but are you coming at????

Bedfordspurs said:
We added 4 first 11 players this summer.
World Cup finalist - actually a PSG reject and a last minute desperation loan... but more importantly, he has been injured since day 1 and is still clearly rusty
Super experienced Portuguese international - who plays every game
Great beast mode winger - again plays every game
And one of the best young creative players in Europe - who is still looking like little boy lost and has made a the sum of zero impact with no evidence of that great creativity you talk about
Yet….
We played one kid in that starting 11 yesterday
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