Thomas Frank - Former Head Coach

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I'm not sure any manager who was convinced HE wouldn't be here in the summer, is doing any work towards getting the squad thru to the summer.

It was pretty much NothingBall.

True, but I think it was work towards making sure the squad was in the best possible condition to win the Europa games.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Looking back now....one thing that annoyed me about Ange is how he completely gave up on the league.

I'm not saying he should have tried harder so we got a few more points BUT as a development and discovery period. We had the luxury that season of 26pts would keep you up (a ridiculously low total).
He had just 5 EL games that really needed precise preparation.
After the Man U win we had 13 league games to do as we pleased with. That's a third of a season prep time to refine, adjust and show that, yeah, there might be life in this project yet. (And I'm not talking about results).

But it appears that, whether it was just a vibe he had or knew directly, that Feb hunch he was done for (as stated on the Neville podcast), just manifested in him not giving a fudge about those games and focusing on his self serving 'delivering a trophy in his second season'

To have just over a third of a season in this league as a gift of free hits to tune your team is almost unheard of.

I'm sure he could have made the decision much harder for the board especially as he had a trophy as an ace card.

if you are prioritising the EL, you need to keep the players match fit, and make sure they don't get injured. That pretty much stops you from playing a different team (i.e. playing youngsters, and he was doing that anyway) or trying different tactics with intensity (i.e. not half-hearted).

 

[thfcsteff]

[

Ange said that he had players he wanted (the list much reported) BUT the viability of getting more than one of them was reduced because we finished 5th rather than 4th (this bit not reported) because of no CL money guaranteed for that season.

(Neville podcast)

Its just a stripped out incomplete quote for a headline to bash the club with or to cause fan anger.

I watched it, just wasn't sure what context you got from it. I felt he was saying that was what he was told, yet we never 'audere est facere' and do such things anyway.

 

[thfcsteff]

Looking back now....one thing that annoyed me about Ange is how he completely gave up on the league.

I'm not saying he should have tried harder so we got a few more points BUT as a development and discovery period. We had the luxury that season of 26pts would keep you up (a ridiculously low total).
He had just 5 EL games that really needed precise preparation.
After the Man U win we had 13 league games to do as we pleased with. That's a third of a season prep time to refine, adjust and show that, yeah, there might be life in this project yet. (And I'm not talking about results).

But it appears that, whether it was just a vibe he had or knew directly, that Feb hunch he was done for (as stated on the Neville podcast), just manifested in him not giving a fudge about those games and focusing on his self serving 'delivering a trophy in his second season'

To have just over a third of a season in this league as a gift of free hits to tune your team is almost unheard of.

I'm sure he could have made the decision much harder for the board especially as he had a trophy as an ace card.

Not sure if you remember mate but I said on here he was gone after the window.

I can see why you'd be annoyed, but look at it from his angle. Basically he has been parked to pasture, he is cut off from the club, and has one decent shot at doing anything. If he achieved it, the action would benefit both parties. If he failed, he is a selfish prick. He gambled at a time when he was (essentially) deserted by the board (well, let's just say that it appears Munn was exceptionally unhelpful in helping communications). BTW, Munn must have some serious clauses in his arrangement because there has not been a peep!

 

[Bullet]

Ange going to Forest was the reverse of Thomas coming to Spurs.

Presumably Marinakis and Ange built up a great rapport behind the scenes, chatting about Greece and its culture/food/islands and eventually Ange decided it was a great idea involving one or both of
a) several million quid, whatever the outcome
b) threats

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Not sure if you remember mate but I said on here he was gone after the window.

I can see why you'd be annoyed, but look at it from his angle. Basically he has been parked to pasture, he is cut off from the club, and has one decent shot at doing anything. If he achieved it, the action would benefit both parties. If he failed, he is a selfish prick. He gambled at a time when he was (essentially) deserted by the board (well, let's just say that it appears Munn was exceptionally unhelpful in helping communications). BTW, Munn must have some serious clauses in his arrangement because there has not been a peep!

Not really annoyed at the time tbh as I was pretty much accepting (as I think all the pod guys were) that we had locked in to the EL, as the one and only target...and I agreed with that as it had merit in as much as it was a live achievable target, plus I had (a selfish) dream that I just wanted the whole Bilbao thing to happen and play out just as it did . (Lucky me)

But reflecting on the opportunity and even the level of professionalness (?) ...during that last third of the season...I'm thinking Ange could have done more to save his job. That amount of non consequential games are a gift. It feels like he only ended up with the emotional ace card of the trophy win to give him a lifeline of staying, BUT the rest added up to very little and because of that I can understand how they came to the decision they did. (At that moment in time I hasten to add....none of this hindsight analysis)

As for Munn...one of the greatest mysteries of our time....could even be one of the earliest uses of AI deception...does he even exist!

 

[Raziel]

The disagreement I have with this is as I said last season we essentially played the same system as Flick Barcelona just with far inferior players. Flick is proof that it can work with the appropriate players. Now of course we are never going to acquire players of that calibre so you might as well say it would never work here, but his actual ideals and model can work but he just needs exceptional players for that to be the case.

It can work in Spain (where Barca can sleep walk a number of their games) with vastly superior players and even then it comes unstuck (they get some crap results), and does anyone see Flick's Barca winning the CL? I'd argue if a system needs that level of player it's probably not that good (i.e. are there no alternatives that could do same or better with lesser players?)

fudge me dead there are still people spouting this absolute garbage (sorry, “reality”)

You mean like the players themselves? VDV basically said Ange's style caused injuries.

Frank rocking up and running Porro, Kudus, Richi, Bentancur into the ground doesn't change that

 

[Bishop]

It can work in Spain (where Barca can sleep walk a number of their games) with vastly superior players and even then it comes unstuck (they get some crap results), and does anyone see Flick's Barca winning the CL? I'd argue if a system needs that level of player it's probably not that good (i.e. are there no alternatives that could do same or better with lesser players?)



You mean like the players themselves? VDV basically said Ange's style caused injuries.

Frank rocking up and running Porro, Kudus, Richi, Bentancur into the ground doesn't change that

Well yes they almost won the CL last season and no if you watch La Liga they can't sleep walk games. That an overdone cliche by people who don't actually watch the league.

I agree that he's a bit of madman because like Ange, if he made some subtle adjustments I think he'd be even more successful but hey they are idealists.

 

[Bullet]

if you watch La Liga they can't sleep walk games. That an overdone cliche by people who don't actually watch the league.

Girona 2, Barcelona 1 tonight

 

[Muttley]

I’m sure Levy always consults football people. Was interesting about football though is that there are so many different styles, systems, philosophies and agendas that people have, that he can take as much advice as possible but the buck stops with him. He is the one that has to have a sense for what the club needs at the time he has to make the decision. And no one else can really tell him.

Eventually a visible trend appears though. Even Levy saw the trend of his own failings and decided to move the chairs about so he could focus on what he was really good at. He took way too long to have his humility moments on how he ran football operations including hiring managers. In any other world you would never let a Daniel Levy near a football manager hiring process. He just hasn't got the football DNA in him.

 

[tommysvr]

You mean like the players themselves?

Yeah, because that’s the only other fudging option.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Quite impressive that just in the past 5 years we’ve gone through 3 of the worst PL managers that the “Big 6” has ever seen…

 

[thfcsteff]

Not really annoyed at the time tbh as I was pretty much accepting (as I think all the pod guys were) that we had locked in to the EL, as the one and only target...and I agreed with that as it had merit in as much as it was a live achievable target, plus I had (a selfish) dream that I just wanted the whole Bilbao thing to happen and play out just as it did . (Lucky me)

But reflecting on the opportunity and even the level of professionalness (?) ...during that last third of the season...I'm thinking Ange could have done more to save his job. That amount of non consequential games are a gift. It feels like he only ended up with the emotional ace card of the trophy win to give him a lifeline. BUT the rest added up to very little and because of that I can understand how they came to the decision they did. (At that moment in time I hasten to add....none of this hindsight analysis)

As for Munn...one of the greatest mysteries of our time....could even be one of the earliest uses of AI deception...does he even exist!

I think the crucial factor is who knew what in February, and both Ange and the club knew they'd made a descision to move on. And I believe Munn's 'role' in 'communicting' between the world of Daniel and the coaching staff/manager was critical in so much as it doesn't seem to have been that successful!

 

[billyiddo]

I don't think anything was decided that early, it was just a remark Ange made in hindsight

 

[Finney Is Back]

Did he? And you know this for a fact because it suits your agenda? Or Santini was already lined up? You'd have a hard time convincing anyone that we'll be better off with the manager of RKC Waalwijk (who'd just finished 11th with a win percentage of 38%), rather than the soon to be (envisaged) Euro winning French manager. Maybe Santini would have worked if Arnesen had backed him rather than undermine him? Arnesen left for more money, simple as.

I would guess Levy hasn't ever made a decision without confiding in 'football' people. The only one I can believe was on him would be Mourinho, because he had a dream of the best stadium with the best manager. Unfortunately, by the time the stadium was built, Mourinho was yesterdays man, and he definitely got that one wrong.

Levy had long been a believer in a DoF - why would you do that if you think you know more about football than them?

Yep, he did. I know this because Martin was a member at the same tennis club as me (I’ve partnered him a few times in the over 50, under 50 doubles - has a very powerful and accurate forehand!).

Yes I would listen to my DoF, it’s what they are there for.

By the way, I think Arnesen was Spurs’ first proper DoF (Pleat was there previously but not as a full DoF).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not sure if you remember mate but I said on here he was gone after the window.

I can see why you'd be annoyed, but look at it from his angle. Basically he has been parked to pasture, he is cut off from the club, and has one decent shot at doing anything. If he achieved it, the action would benefit both parties. If he failed, he is a selfish prick. He gambled at a time when he was (essentially) deserted by the board (well, let's just say that it appears Munn was exceptionally unhelpful in helping communications). BTW, Munn must have some serious clauses in his arrangement because there has not been a peep!

I said at the time that Munn was a patsy. Basically somebody who was prepared to come in and put his signature to Paratici’s decisions while Paratici was serving his ban

 

[Lemonade Money]

Yep, he did. I know this because Martin was a member at the same tennis club as me (I’ve partnered him a few times in the over 50, under 50 doubles - has a very powerful and accurate forehand!).

Yes I would listen to my DoF, it’s what they are there for.

By the way, I think Arnesen was Spurs’ first proper DoF (Pleat was there previously but not as a full DoF).

Hmm, posting all day yesterday, but took until now to think up this nugget.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Hmm, posting all day yesterday, but took until now to think up this nugget.

I made the grand total of two posts yesterday, only one after your post in response to mine and that one post I made was in a different thread.

Now I’m sure you have set yourself up to get notifications whenever one of my posts lands on this forum (I don’t.blame you - I would want to read my posts too) but apologies, I’m not as interested in your posts.as you are in mine, so I only get to them whenever I happen to open a thread you’ve posted in

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Did Ange actually "throw the league?" We finished 17th and are heading for a similar finish this season. Maybe we had (and still have) a squad extremely short on quality and fitness, full of average/injury/suspension prone players and a lack of professionalism thrown in (think Bissouma, Romero).

Add to that two head coaches in Ange and Frank with zero experience of dealing with the kind of circumstances and scrutiny they faced and you have the proverbial "recipe for disaster". I don't for one minute think Ange "threw the league", i think the squad and tactics were found out in the league.

Instead of going for coaches with top level experience we've tried to be clever and pick up "the next big thing".

Which is what we've done in transfer market. Which is why we've ended up with nobody backwater coaches trying to make something resembling a team out of what is essentially a bunch of kids and a handful of misfits.

 

[harr1984]

Did Ange actually "throw the league?" We finished 17th and are heading for a similar finish this season. Maybe we had (and still have) a squad extremely short on quality and fitness, full of average/injury/suspension prone players and a lack of professionalism thrown in (think Bissouma, Romero).

Add to that two head coaches in Ange and Frank with zero experience of dealing with the kind of circumstances and scrutiny they faced and you have the proverbial "recipe for disaster". I don't for one minute think Ange "threw the league", i think the squad and tactics were found out in the league.

Instead of going for coaches with top level experience we've tried to be clever and pick up "the next big thing".

Which is what we've done in transfer market. Which is why we've ended up with nobody backwater coaches trying to make something resembling a team out of what is essentially a bunch of kids and a handful of misfits.

Throwing the league is the wrong phrase, he prioritised the Europa League with weaker PL teams put out - that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to win games with the side he put out in the PL.

Lets not forget Van De Ven confirmed this and it was obvious anyway with the players he was leaving out: